Wittmann obsession.

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Michael Kenny
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Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 08 Jan 2020 22:04

More correctly SS/Tiger tank obsession but you need a hook to get people engaged.
This was posted on WW Talk recently and it shows the explosion in Wittmann (SS/Tiger tanks) books in the 1990s.
Wittmann books ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.jpg
I am firmly convinced this is chiefly the fault of Tamiya and their kits.
Hopefully the current fall-off in books bodes well for a more balanced viewing of events by future anoraks.
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Yoozername
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Yoozername » 09 Jan 2020 01:06

Michael Kenny wrote:
08 Jan 2020 22:04
More correctly SS/Tiger tank obsession but you need a hook to get people engaged.
This was posted on WW Talk recently and it shows the explosion in Wittmann (SS/Tiger tanks) books in the 1990s.

Wittmann books ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.jpg

I am firmly convinced this is chiefly the fault of Tamiya and their kits.
Hopefully the current fall-off in books bodes well for a more balanced viewing of events by future anoraks.

I wouldn't imagine you would be obsessed with WW Talk? Tamiya? What about Revell??

https://www.tumblr.com/search/ww%20talk

Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 09 Jan 2020 01:21

WW2 Talk is better.
Tamiya nurtured and fueled the Tiger obsession.
I was drawn into this area by Dan Taylors VBTTL book (1990s) and it was when I tried to confirm (yes, I was a believer!) and catalogue the Wittmann/Tiger claims that the problems started. The facts, when checked, did not match the claims.

Eventually I was able to help set the record straight.

https://www.editions-heimdal.fr/en/worl ... 83847.html

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Aida1
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Aida1 » 09 Jan 2020 10:13

I think somebody has an obsession here but not the general public. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 09 Jan 2020 11:27

Aida1 wrote:
09 Jan 2020 10:13
I think somebody has an obsession here but not the general public.
Given you are about 150 different posters you are the general G, sorry I mean the general public

Yoozername
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Yoozername » 09 Jan 2020 20:11

Aida1 wrote:
09 Jan 2020 10:13
I think somebody has an obsession here but not the general public. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, the material is running thin. But at least it is a graph of sorts, and not a blurry picture. And a segue to a book ad of sorts.

The Soviets, themselves, logged massive armor losses. Maybe they miscounted, and a brave revisionist author can finally set them straight in this second decade of this century?

Maybe MK needs to start a new file on these guys?????


Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 10 Jan 2020 16:48

Yoozername wrote:
09 Jan 2020 20:11


The Soviets, themselves, logged massive armor losses........
.........the currency of victory.

Berlin, belly of the beast.
Screenshot_3j9.jpg
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Aida1
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Aida1 » 11 Jan 2020 10:34

Michael Kenny wrote:
10 Jan 2020 16:48
Yoozername wrote:
09 Jan 2020 20:11


The Soviets, themselves, logged massive armor losses........
.........the currency of victory.

Berlin, belly of the beast.
Screenshot_3j9.jpg
I would call this sour grapes. I do not think ghosts killed the russian armor. :lol: :lol:

Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Jan 2020 13:30

Aida1 wrote:
11 Jan 2020 10:34



I would call this sour grapes. I do not think ghosts killed the russian armor.
Germany lies in ruins.
Millions of her citizens killed in the last 12 months.
Enemy armies are laying waste to the country.
Total and utter devastation everywhere.
but hey it is of no real impost when a lone Tiger tank in Berlin claims to have knocked out 30-40-50-120 (chose your fantasy) Russian tanks!

That sort of mindset is the Wittmann/Tiger tank obsession.

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Aida1
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Aida1 » 11 Jan 2020 16:51

Michael Kenny wrote:
11 Jan 2020 13:30
Aida1 wrote:
11 Jan 2020 10:34



I would call this sour grapes. I do not think ghosts killed the russian armor.
Germany lies in ruins.
Millions of her citizens killed in the last 12 months.
Enemy armies are laying waste to the country.
Total and utter devastation everywhere.
but hey it is of no real impost when a lone Tiger tank in Berlin claims to have knocked out 30-40-50-120 (chose your fantasy) Russian tanks!

That sort of mindset is the Wittmann/Tiger tank obsession.
This obsession does not exist. Tiger tanks were simply very successfull. There were only not enough of them. Heavy armor losses by the red army were not inflicted by ghosts. :lol: :lol:

Yoozername
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Yoozername » 11 Jan 2020 17:31

Yes, as usual, he missed the point.

Clearly, the Soviets 'burned currency', including people's lives, in a manner that most of the Western powers could not. But the point is that the Soviets did have tremendous losses to their tank/SPG fleet. That is, by their own account. And the point is that given the large number of armor losses, and the relatively small number of Tigers, statistically it is possible that they inflicted large numbers of kills. Even given the fact that they were used in an offensive role.

The Tiger fleet was never fielded in great numbers. The number of runners were even smaller. The second half of 1944 saw an overall decrease in that fleet. The heyday of the Tiger I was 1943 to about the first half of 1944. It was already being planned out of production before the D-Day invasion.

The war in the West seems to have some myopic effect on some revisionistic folk. The parameters were clearly different, and the timing was on the downward slope of the graph. Some may say THAT is the blind obsession.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Jan 2020 18:30

Your country is laid waste and your armed forces completely trounced on every front but you claim a moral victory because the other side lost more tanks than you?
I am sure this was of great comfort to the families of the millions of Germans needlessly killed in the last few months of the war.

Stiltzkin
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Stiltzkin » 11 Jan 2020 18:41

The lesson of ignorance for today: Tanks won World War II :lol:

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Aida1
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Aida1 » 11 Jan 2020 18:47

Michael Kenny wrote:
11 Jan 2020 18:30
Your country is laid waste and your armed forces completely trounced on every front but you claim a moral victory because the other side lost more tanks than you?
I am sure this was of great comfort to the families of the millions of Germans needlessly killed in the last few months of the war.
Not the point. That the red army suffered high losses in armor is simply a historical fact you have difficulty to accept. And has nothing to do with the non existing Wittmann obsession .You may have certainly a Tiger obsession.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Wittmann obsession.

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Jan 2020 19:01

Aida1 wrote:
11 Jan 2020 18:47
You may have certainly a Tiger obsession.
Obsessive?
Moi?
A bit rich coming from tigerivan, OLRIK, decepticon, maarten tromp, ledom Mellethin,westerhage, lossov, jurgensen, berek, JBH1,butgen,General G, Golz, Guss, Spur, hvefsjbm, rendulic,Teske,julian23, apollo144, Brunchmuller, Grkarl, Neumann et al.

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