APCR Porduction

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Yoozername
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by Yoozername » 23 Mar 2020 21:06

Contender wrote:
23 Mar 2020 19:55
explain these guys then:

whom are 1943-1945 craft
December 1943:

The use of the 37mm Pak had basically been withdrawn before the order to stop manufacture of it's ammunition. Evidently, there was a stockpile that the ground attack planes could use. There weren't very many of these planes, and they did not actually carry that many rounds either.

December 1943:
680,000 3.7 cm Pzgr. 40 for the 3.7 cm Pak and about 269,000 3.7 cm Pzgr. 40 for the Kw.K.

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Contender
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by Contender » 23 Mar 2020 21:49

The snippet reads it like they were making a tremendous effort to stop these round from being sent to the front-lines which makes the " they used stock piled APCR/ 37 mm idea" seem at odds with this order moreover my point was that immediately after this the Germans introduced several cannons ( BK 5, BK 37, Mk 101,etc.) on ground attack craft which relied on tungsten rounds in apparent opposition to this order.
Also there are some 44 dated manuals that list the Pzgr 40:
(posted before: D1881)
Image
(D443-2a)
Image

Yoozername
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by Yoozername » 23 Mar 2020 23:36

It really would come down to having a pile of ammunition that is basically useless in a ground role, and useful in a 'bordweapon' or ground attack role. I believe the cartridge case was longer for the Stuka (FlaK 18?), but repurposing almost useless projectiles would have been worthwhile.

Again, you have to take into account the number of tubes or 'end-users'. As an example, the Pak 40 antitank gun had a fielded 'fleet' of 4000 pieces. Not sure if there were ever more than 200-400 TOTAL stukas flying around, let alone the G model.

Almost all German documents kept them on the books.

Has anyone ever come across any information regarding the 'W' versions being used in combat?

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Contender
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by Contender » 29 Mar 2020 14:40

Here's a question: Why did late war 75mm-88mm German sights have a Pzgr 40 scale past 1943?
The sights were continuously refined the Pz IV sight added in a scale for the improved Gr 38 B & then c rounds for instance but retained the Pzgr 40.....

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peeved
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by peeved » 29 Mar 2020 15:22

Maybe kept on the off chance that PzGr 40 would yet become available with e.g. uranium penetrators.

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critical mass
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by critical mass » 31 Mar 2020 17:52

That was indeed ordered, but nothing came out of it, apart from trial ammunition.

as of 31st of january 1944 issued Munitionsblätter (classified geheime Kommandosache, BAMA RH12-2-175, primary source) I have the following information on hard cored (-Hk.) APCR to share:

3.7cm Pzgr.40: Fertigung eingestellt
4.2cm Pzgr.Patr.41: Fertigung läuft weiter
4.7cm Pzgr.Patr. 40(t): Fertigung eingestellt
4.7cm Pzgr.Patr. 40(f): Fertigung eingestellt
5cm PzgrPatr.40 PAK38: Fertigung eingestellt
5cm PzgrPatr.40/1 PAK38: Fertigung eingestellt
7.5cm PzgrPatr.40: Fertigung eingestellt
7.5cm PzgrPatr.40W: Fertigung eingestellt, kann als Übungsmunition aufgebraucht werden
7.5cm PzgrPatr 41 PAK41:Fertigung läuft weiter
7.5cm PzgrPatr 41W PAK41:Fertigung eingestellt, kann als Übungsmunition aufgebraucht werden
7.62cm PzgrPatr.40: Fertigung eingestellt
8.8cm PzgrPatr.40/43: Fertigung eingestellt

APCR for 42mm PAK 41 and 75mm PAK41 was the only APCR ammunition which was explicitely noted for continued production. But quantity likely was not high.

Yoozername
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Re: APCR Porduction

Post by Yoozername » 01 Apr 2020 04:31

The 7,5 cm Pak 41 was dwindled in fleet size to 41 pieces?

https://panzerworld.com/7-5-cm-pak-41

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