Panthers tested in 1944

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Michael Kenny
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Location: Teesside

Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 16 Mar 2020 04:37

Gorque wrote:
15 Mar 2020 20:41
Hi Michael:

Picture 5 ^^: Was the Panther holed just underneath the three vertical dots. And do you know what these 3 vertical dots represent? Hinge mounts?
feb 2nd 20786.jpg
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Gorque
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Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by Gorque » 16 Mar 2020 18:27

Hi Michael: ^^

Thank you for taking the time to answer me. :thumbsup:

Michael Kenny
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Location: Teesside

Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 24 Mar 2020 01:45

I posted a wooden Panther earlier in the thread and just found a wooden Tiger (and wooden Pz IV in background?) at the same location

Tiger 712 wooden .jpg
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Avalancheon
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Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by Avalancheon » 25 Mar 2020 03:33

Michael Kenny wrote:
13 Mar 2020 21:59
The first time the Western Allies got a Panther for testing was May 1944. Panther number '433' taken at Kursk in July 1943 and sent to the UK with initial inspection dated 22 May 1944.

As it was the only Panther it could not be used in firing trials but they managed to work out there would be a problem and this report was the one that introduces the 'deflection' down into the crew compartment.
Screenshot_102.jpg

This vehicle caught fire and burnt out during mechanical/mobility testing on July 28th 1944 and was then later used for firing tests
Ah yes, I know of this test. PzKpfw V Panther Preliminary Report on Armour Quality and Vulnerability.

I've seen a few people using this report as proof that German tank armor was of subpar quality. But as critical mass pointed out in another thread, there were errors in how the British conducted the test.

As the images show, the glacis plate was tested at 0 degrees, rather than 55 degrees (its actual obliquity when on level ground). This is a problem because the Germans optimised the metallurgy of their armor plates based on a number of considerations, including obliquity.

The Tigers glacis was almost flat, at 9 degrees, and was optimised on that. The Panthers glacis was sloped at 55 degrees, and was optimised on that. So if you change the plate orientation by a significant amount, there is going to be some unusual results.


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Michael Kenny
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Posts: 6366
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 25 Mar 2020 03:42

Avalancheon wrote:
25 Mar 2020 03:33


This vehicle caught fire and burnt out during mechanical/mobility testing on July 28th 1944 and was then later used for firing tests
Ah yes, I know of this test. PzKpfw V Panther Preliminary Report on Armour Quality and Vulnerability.



No. This was the first intact Panther to arrive in the UK and far too valuable to be shot up. The measured it and calculated the effects.
Then came the landings and there were Panther hulks lying around all over the place for individual Units to do test shoots for themselves. The scientific firing trails were done (on 3 Panthers) later in the UK but by that time the field results were in and it was a pointless exercise. Later after the Kursk Panther burnt out during mobility tests they fitted a plate on the glacis that was intended (so I am told) to replicate a TII glacis. I have not seen any report on this firing trial.

critical mass
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Re: Panthers tested in 1944

Post by critical mass » 25 Mar 2020 17:42

Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2020 01:45
I posted a wooden Panther earlier in the thread and just found a wooden Tiger (and wooden Pz IV in background?) at the same location


Tiger 712 wooden .jpg
I am surprised about the high quality of the wooden model.

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