Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 04 Apr 2020 09:30

Gents,

Thanks very much for this very useful research collaboration - if only all threads on AHF were like this. :D :roll:

Going back now to the Int Sum sketch map that Michael kindly posted up before, we can I think see that at least some of those AFVs were actually in situ rather than recovered to those positions:

Mouen wrecks - II Cdn Corps INT - 31 Jul 44.jpg
So there is the StuG III by the road-rail crossing and at the top (I would contend) circled in green is the StuG III that you can see in the background in the first film grab I posted. Its interesting that there are two more StuG IIIs shown in the Int Sum further to the east. Have to look out for some more photos!

And, obviously, now that I look at the sketch again - what do we see, but what seem to be 4 BIVs (2 on railway, one well to the west and one on road just south of the road junction at top of the page. That should have been a bit of a clue!!! :oops:

It's also worth noting that this shows what Michael reported - that the two Mk IVs knocked out in what looks like a sunken lane were recovered/extracted to clear a route down to MOUEN.

Of interest too, therefore, are the two TIGERS circled in red and of course how almost perfectly the 3 CLY recorded the results of their engagement on 28 Jun 44:
3 CLY - 28 Jun 44.PNG
Swap two Pz IVs for two SP guns and they were spot on. I also wonder if the "personnel carriers" they report knocking out were in fact BIVs. Somewhat like a "Carrier" from a British perspective?

Anyone seen a picture of a knocked out TIGER on a railway track?

Regards

Tom
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Simon Trew 1
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 10 Apr 2020 12:54

Sorry, afraid I don't have time to catch up with the full contents of this thread at the moment. And apologies if this has already been mentioned!

British Second Army Intelligence Summary No.36, issued 11 July 1944 (UK National Archives WO 171/221):

"Several B-4 demolition vehicles and also their controlling assault guns have been found in the MOUEN area 9365 with the following marking in red:

[Reproduces rising sun emblem]

This is thought to be the emblem of 315 Independent Assault Gun Company, which was last heard of with the panzer regiment of 21 Pz Div. The FPN on documents captured with one of the Assault Guns was 08914."

Hope this helps,

Simon

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 10 Apr 2020 14:53

And a follow-up.

The sketch map attributed to 2nd Canadian Corps' ISUM 21 of 31 July appears for the first time (I think) in British Second Army's ISUM 39, issued 14 July. It does so as an annex to a lengthy description (on p.5 of Part II of the ISUM) of the wrecked vehicles found at Mouen. It is confirmed that there were 4 B IVs and 4 control Stugs, 'Stu K 40' in the area. Most of the report is a technical description of the Borgwards' features. There is an interesting note at the end that says that if somebody knows the location of the transmitter from the Stug at the level crossing MR 937477, then Second Army would love to know about it. Presumably somebody took it out of the vehicle?

Best,

Simon

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 10 Apr 2020 15:09

Simon Trew 1 wrote:
10 Apr 2020 12:54
British Second Army Intelligence Summary No.36, issued 11 July 1944 (UK National Archives WO 171/221):

"Several B-4 demolition vehicles and also their controlling assault guns have been found in the MOUEN area 9365 with the following marking in red:

[Reproduces rising sun emblem]

This is thought to be the emblem of 315 Independent Assault Gun Company, which was last heard of with the panzer regiment of 21 Pz Div. The FPN on documents captured with one of the Assault Guns was 08914."

Hope this helps,

Simon
Simon,

That's fantastic, I had been hoping to go back to Kew to look into 2nd Army Int Sums but sadly "lock-down" intervened. I'm much obliged to you for nailing down exactly where I should be looking. :thumbsup:

Regards

Tom

Simon Trew 1
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 10 Apr 2020 15:54

Hi Tom,

Yes, the temporary closure at Kew is pretty frustrating. I was there the day it closed, since I couldn't believe it would stay open much longer - and indeed, at 4 o'clock the tannoy announced they were shutting that evening. Luckily, I managed to get the better part of 4000 photos before I was chucked out - mostly of ISUMs, as that's what I'm mostly interested in now. Even more luckily, the ISUMs happened to include the 2nd Army ones. While working through those today to input entries into my 'Normandy from the German perspective' source guide (now approaching 250,000 words!), I happened to come across the ones about the stuff that makes up the subject matter of this thread (which I'd glanced at a couple of times recently). So it seemed opportune to chuck the material in. Glad it helps.

Simon

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 10 Apr 2020 16:12

For what it's worth, this is the section from the source guide relating to the Borgward units. There are probably still things to add (and possibly to correct) but since the subject appears to be of interest, I'll post it here now:

[From chapter on Pz forces and armoured warfare - although it could end up with the engineer section instead.]

4.3. Remote-controlled demolition units:

Among the more unusual units used by the Germans in Normandy were three which operated remote-control armoured demolition vehicles known as Funklenkpanzer. These were equipped with the ‘Borgward IV’ heavy explosive charge carrier and Sturmgeschütz control vehicles. One of the units also had five Kingtiger tanks. The units were attached to three different panzer divisions.

4.3.1. General works and intelligence reports:

‘Independent assault gun company’. This Canadian intelligence report describes the tactical use of Borgward explosive carriers and their control vehicles. See Part II of First Canadian Army’s Intelligence Summary No.34, issued 2 August 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 179/2606A).

Jaugitz, Markus (trans. Johnston, David): German remote-control tank units 1943-1945 (Schiffer Military/Aviation History, Atglen 1996: 50pp., illustrations). This is the English-language edition of the author’s Waffen Arsenal – Die Deutsche Fernlenktruppe 1943-1945 (Podzun-Pallas Verlag). The book describes the development and technical specification of the Borgward IV heavy explosive charge carrier.

Jaugitz, Markus (trans. Johnston, David): Funklenkpanzer: A history of German Army Remote- and Radio-Controlled Armor Units (J. J. Fedorowicz Publishing Inc., Winnipeg 2001; xii + 610pp., maps, illustrations). This book identifies the equipment employed by German remote-control demolition vehicle units in Normandy and describes their use in action (pp.366-99 and 457-8).

‘Radio-controlled demolition vehicles – Sprengladungsträger’. This is a detailed intelligence report about the characteristics of the Borgward IV, based on inspection of four abandoned vehicles of this type captured at Mouen, west of Caen (see section 4.3.3. below). The description is in Part II of British Second Army’s Intelligence Summary No.39, issued 14 July 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 171/221). Appendix D to the same report includes a drawing of one of the captured demolition vehicles, plus a sketch map showing where they and their control Sturmgeschütze were found.

‘Tactical use of the B.IV.’ This report is based on a captured German notebook, in which material relating to the tactical use of Borgward demolition vehicles was included. See Part II of British Second Army’s Intelligence Summary No.43, issued 18 July 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 171/221).

Zetterling, Niklas: Normandy 1944: German Military Organization, Combat Power and Organizational Effectiveness (J. J. Fedorowicz Publishing, Inc., Winnipeg 2000; ix + 462pp., illustrations). Pages 188-9 of this book provide information about German funklenkpanzer units that fought in Normandy during summer 1944. The same material can be found on pp.160-1 of the 2019 edition of the same work.

Three U.S. intelligence documents that describe the features of the Borgward IV can be downloaded free of charge from the following internet source: http://www.sturmpanzer.com/Research/Library/intel.aspx. The reports provide detailed technical specifications and are illustrated with numerous photographs.

4.3.2. 301st Funklenk Battalion (Funklenk-Abteilung 301):

A company from this unit, which was equipped with the Borgward IV vehicle, served with 2nd Panzer Division during the Normandy campaign.

‘B IV b radio controlled demolition vehicles’. This is a report on the use of Borgward demolition vehicles against Canadian troops at Verrieres, near Caen, on 31 July. Almost certainly, this engagement involved vehicles belonging to 301st Funklenk Battalion. The account is in Part II of British Second Army’s Intelligence Summary No.58, issued 2 August 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 171/222). It also appears in Part II of First Canadian Army’s Intelligence Summary No.56, issued 24 August 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 179/2606A).

‘Tactical employment of B4 equipment’. This is an account of an attack carried out against Canadian troops by a group of Borgward IVs on 31 July 1944. It contains much more information than the report mentioned immediately above. The material was extracted from 2nd Canadian Infantry Division’s Intelligence Summary No.6 and appears in First Canadian Army’s Intelligence Summary No.33 of 1 August 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 179/2606A).

Verwicht, Alain: “Unites et Materials: La 2.Panzer-Division, 1 Juin 1944”, in Panzer Voran! Number 2, 1999, pp.22-25. This French-language article pays particularly close attention to 301st Funklenk Abteilung, one of whose companies was attached to 2nd Panzer Division at the start of the Normandy campaign.

4.3.3. 315th Funklenk Company (Panzer-Kompanie 315 (Funklenk)):

This Borgward IV unit was attached to 21st Panzer Division on D-Day. It was withdrawn from action in late June.

‘Fmn emblems - 315 Independent Assault Gun Company’. This short intelligence report notes the presence of knocked-out Borgward IVs and their controlling assault guns near Mouen, west of Caen. See Part II of British Second Army’s Intelligence Summary No.36, issued 11 July 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 171/221).

Three interrogation reports of members of this unit can be found in the UK National Archives. They provide interesting information about the organisation and equipment of the unit, and how its vehicles were supposed to be used in action. See WO 208/3590 (SIR 337), WO 208/3621 (PWIS(H)/2), and WO 208/3622 (PWIS(H)/22).

4.3.4. 316th Funklenk Company (Panzer-Kompanie 316 (Funklenk)):

This Borgward IV unit was attached to the Panzer Lehr Division during the Normandy campaign.

Irrgang, Astrid: Leutnant der Wehrmacht: Peter Stölten in seinen Feldpostbriefen – Vom richtigen Leben im Falschen (Rombach Verlag, Freiburg 2007; 345pp.). Unfortunately, I was unable to see a copy of this book before completing this bibliography. According to Nicholas Stargardt’s The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-45 (The Bodley Head, London 2015, pp.426-9), it is about a young German officer who served with 316th Panzer Company (Funklenk) in Normandy. Stölten was injured in a motorcycle accident in July 1944, but correspondence quoted in Stargardt’s book describes some of his experiences during the previous month.

Santin, Eric: “Été 1944: les Tiger de Châteaudun”, in 39/45 Magazine, Number 157-8, July-August 1999, pp.2-15. This article describes the fate of five Kingtiger tanks belonging to 316th Panzer Company (Funklenk), which were encountered by US forces in and around the town of Châteaudun on 16 August 1944, during the breakout from Normandy. French text.

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Michael Kenny » 10 Apr 2020 16:20

Simon Trew 1 wrote:
10 Apr 2020 14:53
a lengthy description (on p.5 of Part II of the ISUM) of the wrecked vehicles found at Mouen.

Are the 2 Tigers mentioned?

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 10 Apr 2020 16:40

Sorry, no - at least, not in that report. On page 7 of the same ISUM, under the heading 'Estimated distribution of destroyed armour' (for the period 29 June - 12 July) there is a reference to 2 Tigers from 101 SS and 1 Tiger from 102 SS Heavy tk bns ko'd. That may or may not be relevant.

Simon

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Apr 2020 10:00

The SS 102 Tiger was '221 on/near Hill 112

Tiger 221 Hill112- (1).jpg
Tiger 221 Hill112- (2).jpg
The SS 101 Tigers are more problematic. Is there any numbering of map references given?
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Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 11 Apr 2020 12:14

Michael,

In the war diary of 11 Armd Div "G" Branch (WO171/456):

28 June 1944
1320 3 CLY engaging tks at 935654.

And then

11 ARMD DIV INT SUMMARY NO. 12

(Based on infm received up to 1200 hrs 30 Jun 44)

[…]

During the afternoon an Inf Bde supported by one of our Armd Regts beat the wooded area MOUEN – COLLEVILLE – TOURVILLE, but has possibly left some enemy still to be disposed of North of the river in area 9464. This op looked like providing some good shooting for the Inf Bn on the South side of the river through whose area the German inf were passing. An identification of 101 Hy Tk Bn of 1 SS Corps at 940657 was interesting as providing the probable origin of the Tigers which have been of considerable nuisance value on our left flank.

Regards

Tom

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Michael Kenny » 13 Apr 2020 16:06

In Hayward's book 'Firefly' page 70 mentions a War Diary entry for 11 AD (11 ARMD DIV INT SUMMARY NO. 12?) that says 2 Tigers with numbers '231' & 324' were disabled by 17 pdr shot. No evidence for these two exists and '231' is featured in a 1946 Canadian photo that captions it as having its gun pointed at Bourgebus. This places it far away from EPSOM and given it appears in a collection of photos of post war locations of the Canadian actions around Verriers I think it may be considered accurate.
Screenshot_295fff.jpg
As usual two steps forward and one back!
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Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 26 Apr 2020 19:58

Michael Kenny wrote:
13 Apr 2020 16:06
In Hayward's book 'Firefly' page 70 mentions a War Diary entry for 11 AD (11 ARMD DIV INT SUMMARY NO. 12?) that says 2 Tigers with numbers '231' & 324' were disabled by 17 pdr shot.
Michael,

Does it give a date for that INT SUM? I've got the war diary for 11 AD for the period and I couldn't find a mention of numbered Tigers - I'll go back and have another look to see if I missed a day.

Regards

Tom

Sam Wren
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Sam Wren » 27 Apr 2020 00:11

It is at the top of Pg 2 of Appx A of 11 Armd Div Int Summary No. 14, 3 July 1944

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 27 Apr 2020 07:50

Sam,

Thanks, I've not got July 44! Another one to go on the list for when Kew reopens!

Regards

Tom

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Re: Stug III at MOUEN - 29 Jun 44

Post by Sam Wren » 27 Apr 2020 07:53

I can send it to you if you want. I have complete War Diaries for June, July & August 1944

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