SdKfz 251/10

[yantaylor]

Hi everyone.

I want to find out a few things about the SdKfz 251/10, mainly about the gun shield and variants.

Was this gun mounted on the ausf A, B, C & D? Was the large gun shield only mounted on the earlier models, with the cut down shield used on later models?

Was this modification done by the crew themselves with your basic 3.7cm PaK shield getting the top chopped off or was it fitted with a new shield.
Was the SdKfz 251/10 ever sent to Africa, I ask this because it seems that the SdKfz 251 was a rare beast in the desert.

BTW: I have found a 1/72 kit in my loft, it has been built and painted in panzer grey, but the front machine gun has been broken off. By chance I had a rummage through my spares box and found a 3.7cm PaK 36 minus its carriage, so I thought of creating my own.

This throws up a few challenges, shall I leave it grey as it is ausf A. B or C, or paint it sand and turn into a DAK vehicle. The version I would have preferred is one for Normandy 44 as I have a full panzer grenadier company in 1/72 all nearly painted, which requires a dozen SdKfz 251/10 ausf Ds, but this would make the SdKfz 251/10 look out of place. But if I did want to add the PaK, would it be easy to alter the large gun shield to smaller version.

Thanks for any help.
Ian

[SIS 5]

Hi Ian,

to Your question: Was the SdKfz 251/10 ever sent to Africa, I ask this because it seems that the SdKfz 251 was a rare beast in the desert.
You are right. I have only one pic of a Sd.Kfz. 251/10 in Africa captured by British soldiers (source of the pic: tank museum Bovington.

Regards

Bert

[yantaylor]

Thanks Bert and as we can see it has a full shield and the early version of the 251.

Here is another one, with a funny shaped body!



Ian

[yantaylor]

Bert, I am not sure but I think that the only units to recieve 251s were either signals and engineers, was the term panxer grenadier even used in 1941/42? So the Infantry were just motorised in trucks.
Would I be wrong in saying that DAK was the only fully mechanised corp available so early in the war?

Ian

[SIS 5]

Hi Ian,

by chance I could find another pic of a Sd.Kfz. 251/10 I think (source: http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/vi ... 0&start=15).
But on this discussion forum there were doubts about the gun on the left Sd.Kfz.
Now to Your questions:
1. Not only signals and engineers received 251s. In February 1941 the Stabskompanie (staff company) of the both MG-Bataillon 2 and 8 of the 15th Panzerdivision got 10 Sd.Kfz.251. Interesting is the information about the stock of Sd.Kfz. 251 in November 1941:
15th Panzerdivison 33 Sd.Kfz. 251 and 4 Sd.Kfz.251/6, 21st Panzerdivision 31 Sd.Kfz. 251 and 3 Sd.Kfz.251/6, 90th leichte Divison 1 Sd.Kfz. 251/6.
The term panzer grenadier was not yet used in 1941/42. The renaming from Schützen-Regiment 33 to Panzergrenadier-Regiment 33 was 05.07.1942. You are right, that most of the Infantry were motorised in trucks.
I cannot answer to Your last question. I don´t know if the DAK was the only fully mechanised corp available so early in the war.

Regards

Bert

[SIS 5]

Hi Ian,

here an additional information for You: September - December 1941 the PanzerPionierBataillon 200 (armored engineer batallion) had 6 Sd.Kfz. 251/7.
Source of this and the last reply: "Rommels Afrika Korps" by Pier Paolo Battistelli and Dr. Duncan Anderson.

Regards

Bert

[yantaylor]

Thank you Bert, that is really good info and much wanted too.

I see that there is a total of around 72 x 251s, breaking it down a little further, we get;
64 x standard Sd. Kfz.251s [no reference to model type]
8 x Sd. Kfz.251/6 command vehicles.
So would the majority of the Sd. Kfz.251s be for engineer use like the six Sd. Kfz. 251/7s in Panzer Pionier Bataillon 200?

But 72 all models in 1941, makes this vehicle a little less rare indeed.
Ian

[Alanmccoubrey]

Ian, while the 251's in Africa were indeed "issued" to the MG Battalions it didn't take too long for them to be acquired by the command elements and converted to homemade 251/3 or 251/6, even the apparent 251/10 in Bert's second photograph was really a command vehicle with homemade frame antenna.

As for the D version, it was certainly fitted to some but I'm sure that the KStN for 1944 was replacing the 251/10 with the 251/17 as a Platoon Commander's vehicle. Of course you had to be a lucky unit to receive the 251/17.

[yantaylor]

Thanks Alan, I would guess that the sdkfz 250 was even rarer, I think I have only seen a couple of photos of this halftrack in the western desert and one of those was Rommels, or did he have two?
There is a photo of a 250 in Africa in the book by Speilberger and Feist 'German halftrack vehicles' which says it ran over a mine.

Ian

[Alanmccoubrey]

There were three of the command , Rommel's "Greif", the other two were "Adler" and "Igel". I have also seen photograghs of 250's armed with an Italian Solothrun and a French 25mm SA34 and read that they also used a 75mmleIG 18 on one.

http://deutsches-afrikakorps.blogspot.c ... -cars.html

[yantaylor]

I though he had more than one Alan, thanks.
Just been looking on the net for photos of DAK 250s and it is full of them, don't know if they are the same few photographed on different days but there is a lot.

Did it also carry the 2.8cm sPzB 41 while serving in the desert?
Good little weapon that, but soon fell out of service. I don't know if it was standard, but did every DAK Infantry company have a 2.8cm sPzB 41 at company level?

Ian

[Alanmccoubrey]

I have seen a photograph of an SdKfz 250/11 ( 2.8cm sPzB 41) in desert colours but I believe that was from Sonderverband 287, the one that wasn't in Africa. The special North Africa organisation for infantry companies did include the 2.8cm sPzB 41 or the 3,7cm Pak or the 5cm Pak 38 or the 7,62cm Pak36(r), just as long as they had an anti-tank gun ! 2 or 6 pounders would do as well

[Alanmccoubrey]

Ian, another thread on the DAK form with 251 on it.

http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/vi ... =53&t=6412

[yantaylor]

Thank you Alan.

Ian

[SIS 5]

Hi Ian, hi Alan,

first to Your question, Ian. I don´t think that the majority of the Sd. Kfz.251s was for engineer use like the six Sd. Kfz. 251/7s in Panzer Pionier Bataillon 200, but used as normal APC (Sd.Kfz. 251/1).
In November 1942 the Panzerarmee Afrika had 4 Sd.Kfz. 250 and 4 Sd.Kfz.250/3, 64 Sd.Kfz.251, 9 Sd.Kfz. 251/6 according to schedule, but there existed only 1 Sd.Kfz. 250, 1 Sd.Kfz. 250/3, 15 Sd.Kfz.251 and none Sd.Kfz. 251/6.
Here is the pic of a Sd.Kfz. 250 with a French 25mm SA34 (source of the information above and the pic: "Rommels Afrika Korps" by Battistelli and Anderson).

Best regards

Bert