Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Yoozername
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#31

Post by Yoozername » 29 Jun 2020, 00:21

While there can be many factors that might play in (age of the AFV), I would expect that by September 1943 the Tiger I was in some reliable condition. But, for the most part, the weight of the AFV, if nothing else, would require more maintenance and resources. The report mentions turret-turning using fuel. This is because the hydraulic motor for turret rotation required the driver to keep the RPMs up. Likewise, the need for multiple recovery vehicles to recover and move the AFV would also suck down fuel. A bit off topic, but it is my opinion that the Tiger is not so much a tank, as it is a specialized role AFV. My contention is that it is not a linear function. Twice the weight does not mean twice the maintenance, it means perhaps 3-4 times the maintenance, and parts, and fuel.

I read of so many Tiger Is needing engine changes, even the rule that they have to turn in the old engines like beer bottles, that I find it unbelievable that they would last 5000 Km or so. The Panthers used basically the same engine in a lighter AFV. One could compare the two.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#32

Post by Michael Kenny » 29 Jun 2020, 00:23

Sid Guttridge wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 00:21
Hi Seppw,

Accepting what you say, why did you put up a map about WWI without explanation on this thread?

A confused Sid.
If you saw the post the Mod deleted you would understand.


Yoozername
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#33

Post by Yoozername » 29 Jun 2020, 00:30

Another report from 1943

Extract (Chapter III) from an extensive report written by 's.Pz.Abt. 503 'on 10.10.1943 on experiences with the Tiger I. In this chapter emphasis is placed on technical problems as well as problems with the supply of spare parts for the Tiger.

s.Panzer-Abteilung 503
Abt. V
Chapter III

Report on technical experiences in the period 5.7.43 - 21.9.43
Automotive system ( Kraftfahrtechisch )


The Battle Tank :

HL 210 engines often experience fuel pump defects and breakdowns. Its exchange is difficult due to poor accessibility, which causes, in relation to the small breakdown, a long and unnecessary time during which the battle tank is not operational.

Failures in fuel pumps have been caused by faulty membranes, loss of screws in the seats of the suction and pressure relief valves, reduction of the travel of the pusher ( Stössel ) as well as deformation and wear of the mechanism of the pushers.

In some cases, fires have occurred due to the loss of gasoline in the fuel pumps.

The average life of a new set of fuel pumps generally does not exceed 500 km.

The same problems, even after very short runs, have also appeared in the new HL 230 engine with the two double-acting Solex pumps.

The availability of the battle tank could be significantly increased if instead of the four or two pumps a single one was incorporated, reliable and with good accessibility. It would also be desirable to incorporate a large fuel filter before the pumps (as is done in the Panzer III) as well as an auxiliary mechanical hand pump instead of the electric one, which almost never works.

In the engines there have often been breaks in the valve springs. Due to their good encapsulation, these breaks have not always been able to be determined in time, which is why they have caused greater breakdowns than with the means available to the troops, and they have not been able to repair them.

In most new HL 230 engines, defects in the cylinder head gasket occur after very short strokes of only about 300 km, which causes the entry of coolant in the combustion chamber.

Of the last twelve new combat tanks with an HL 230 engine that have been delivered to us, only two have endured a route of between 600 - 900 km without having suffered damage to the cylinder head gasket.

Also in the new engine there are frequent breaks in the valve springs.

Very unpleasant breakdowns have occurred in the starter motor. The sprockets break, which has caused very serious difficulties to the vehicles that were in combat.

Gearbox breakdowns have been greatly reduced. Only the change paths in cylinder III vary on the brake side, caused by too high an axial pressure.

Also the new steering boxes continue to suffer major oil losses.

It should be noted again that the cast iron support brackets for the gearboxes as well as the steering lever and clutch burst when the tank is hit by projectiles. They should be made of steel.

The linkage return springs are, considering its many joints, still too weak. If the clutch linkage jams, the clutch slips, which results in the entire gearbox having to be replaced. They would have to be reinforced.

The main reason for failure of the lateral transmission mechanisms ( Seitenvorgelege) it is necessary to look for it in the overload when starting the movement of the chains.

It should be claimed that the troop receives parts instead of complete aggregates, for example for gearboxes or lateral transmission mechanisms: if the necessary parts are available, the troop could maintain and repair these components on its own, thus avoiding the transport of heavy components and such large dimensions

The following damages have been suffered :

Automotive (tank) :

Technical

failures : 38 engine
failures 33 gearbox
failures 18 fan drive gear
failures 22 side drive gear failures
8 breakdowns on the brakes
3 breakdowns on the radiators

.

Ulater
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#34

Post by Ulater » 29 Jun 2020, 00:49

"Regarding the overheating engines, the HL 210 engine caused no troubles during the recent time. All occurring breakdowns resulted from the low quality of driver training. In several cases engine failures have to be put down to the missing remote engine thermometer. Five engines have reached more than 3,000km without essential failures. A good driver is essential for the successful deployment of the Tiger, he must have a good technical training and has to keep his nerve in critical situations."

That would be the 501st Tiger Bn. in May 1943.

Yoozername
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#35

Post by Yoozername » 29 Jun 2020, 03:57

Wouldn't they have the HL 230 engine in May 43? In any case, the majority of Tiger I would not have that motor.
Last edited by Yoozername on 29 Jun 2020, 04:19, edited 1 time in total.

Yoozername
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#36

Post by Yoozername » 29 Jun 2020, 04:15

Seems Panthers also had the engine defects

13. Panzer-Division report drawn up on 10/20/1943 and addressed to AOK 6, which includes a technical report on the first experiences with the Panther by I./Pz.Rgt.2 during defensive fighting in the Melitopol area (Ukraine) during October 1943. This unit had received its first Panther tanks throughout the month of September.


Technical defects in the automotive :

Engine : Head gaskets burn out. Connecting rod breakage. Oil pump shaft breakage.

Reduction side gears : The special bolts of the large reduction gear sprockets break. The covers of the casings are loosened often, they do not have welding points, so there is a loss of oil. Oil loss also when loosening the reduction gear fixing screws with the side wall of the tank bath.

Fan drive : Failure of the fan upper bearing bearing. Lubrication shortage, despite correct oil level indication. For this reason the drive and often the fans clutch fail.

Transverse transmission : Leaks in the simmering, probably due to a displacement of the main axis.

Intermediate gear : The bearing is shifted towards the motor side. The bearing bracket is pulled in the direction of the Teves pump ( Tevespumpe )
A later report April 1944 by the same unit
HL230 P30 engine :
The life of the engines is generally much higher than that of the motors of the first series.
The highest mileage in 3 out of 7 battle tanks still available is between 1700 and 1800 km.
All engine failures have been of the same nature (bearing damage and connecting rod breakage).
I reaa;lly doubt the Tiger I, with it's higher weight, could do much better.

Yoozername
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Re: Tiger 1 actually extremely reliable?

#37

Post by Yoozername » 29 Jun 2020, 04:26

Report written on 22.4.1944 by the I./Panzer-Regiment 2 summarizing the experiences carried out by this Battalion with the Panther during the heavy fighting of March - April 1944 in the Eastern Front (Ukraine) and where a notable increase in the useful life of the different components of the battle tank.

About : Pz.Kpfw. Panther

In relation to : Report on the experiences of the I./Pz.Rgt. 2 of 22.4.1944



A copy of a report is attached as an annex with the request that its receipt be communicated.

The report confirms the opinion that the continuous improvement of its components has increased the useful life of the Panther tank. The average lifespan of a Panther can now be roughly equal to that of a Panzer IV with around 1,500 - 2,000 kilometers between two major repair and maintenance processes.

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