DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
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DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#1

Post by PanzerModeler » 18 Jun 2020, 02:19

Hello guys,

Since this is my first post I should probably introduce myself a little. I'm a scale model builder, and also a bit of a history fan in general, ranging from documentaries and books to historical themed simulators, to collecting artifacts, etc.

What I've run into recently is that I've started building some North Africa / Western Desert campaign themed models, planes and tanks. I had sources for the aircraft that were used, and for the tanks as well, but I've run into an area where I can't quite find answers and that is "What halftracks did the DAK use?"... I've already got Panzer IIIs and IVs, Stuarts, Grants, Lees, Crusaders, Matildas, and a Tiger done, but no supporting vehicles yet.

So, I have a few halftracks already on the shelf, but I'm not sure if they're correct for DAK schemes. Is there a reference where I can find out which sub variants were actually used by the DAK? I wouldn't want to build up and paint a 251/9 Ausf.D Stummel or something, and then find out that they never used them in North Africa!

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#2

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 18 Jun 2020, 08:23

There was some discussion of this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=248024
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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#3

Post by PanzerModeler » 18 Jun 2020, 09:14

Hi Alan!

Thanks for that link, I've read through it and got quite a bit from it, actually. I hadn't thought about the possibility of some 251/10's being "field made" vehicles but it makes sense!

Was there any information about the 251/9 or 250/8 'Stummel' versions being used or not used by the DAK? And, finally, same question for the 250/9 with the 20mm turret, or was that too late to make it over?

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#4

Post by yantaylor » 18 Jun 2020, 11:51

Hi PM, I am not sure if any Sd.Kfz 251/9 Stummel’s made it to Africa, maybe some arrived in time for the end of the campaign in Tunisia. Some Sd.Kfz 233s arrived in time to serve in Tunisia so maybe the Stummel did too. The Stummel was developed mid 1942, so like the 233, was is the ball park.

The 250/8 and 9, I don’t think these made it to Africa either.

I would like to know myself about which vehicles actually made it to Africa during the whole campaign.

Ian

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#5

Post by yantaylor » 21 Jun 2020, 21:03

What base colour are you using for you DAK and British tanks PzMod?

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#6

Post by PanzerModeler » 23 Jun 2020, 00:39

yantaylor wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 21:03
What base colour are you using for you DAK and British tanks PzMod?

Ian
So that's a kinda interesting question. I'm working in 1/72 scale exclusively for reasons of cost, time, space, etc. Perhaps the small scale, perhaps the lack of fading from the sun, perhaps poorly colorized film and photos (like the ghost-grey colored Tiger IIs you find on Youtube in colorized footage...), or perhaps my ignorance, have often times made me feel like many of the single-color schemes that I painted in the past were just too dark. 1/72 scale tanks painted in Schwarzgrau RAL 7021 looked almost black to my eye, and I had a hard time believing that such a dark color could really be correct. What's strange is that before I started into tanks, I had built tons of aircraft models in 1/72 scale, and never really ran into this.

So my desert kits I have done by using Tamiya XF-59 Desert Yellow lightened up with some Tamiya flat white, and been rather pleased with the effect that I got. Similarly for the Schwarzgrau painted stuff, I used Schwarzgrau with white added until I got a better looking gray color. I haven't been able to get any of it yet, but Tamiya just released some new colors, XF-92 and XF-93 are supposed to replicate the 1941 and 1942 DAK paints, and I will be trying some of those as soon as I can.

For single color schemes I would usually just give it a few coats of wash to highlight panel lines, go after the running gear more heavily with a mud color wash, and lately I've started using some of AK Interactive's washes like the dust effects as well. What I haven't tried playing around with yet is chipping fluid, and I'm pondering doing a Schwarzgrau base coat with desert tan over the top, and then weathering it to reveal the gray base coat.

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#7

Post by yantaylor » 23 Jun 2020, 11:16

Funny enough PM, I painted my DAK vehicles in light grey primer and base coated them in XF-60 dark yellow, but since I have found that Tamiya have brought out a lighter colour in Dark Yellow XF-88, I may give this ago instead as this is supposed to be much lighter and looks more faded when dry. If it works, then I will try things this way;

DAK: XF-88
Europe tri camo: XF-60, XF-89 and XF-90.

I don’t know enough about washes, but I wouldn’t mind knowing how I can lighten up the rubber and tracks on the DAK vehicles.

Ian.

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#8

Post by David W » 23 Jun 2020, 15:23

There was a sticky thread on here or on Feldgrau detailing German vehicles used in North Africa up to and including October 1942.

I can't find it here, so I guess it must be on Feldgrau, which I can't access today.

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#9

Post by PanzerModeler » 24 Jun 2020, 02:28

yantaylor wrote:
23 Jun 2020, 11:16
I don’t know enough about washes, but I wouldn’t mind knowing how I can lighten up the rubber and tracks on the DAK vehicles.
My versions of a wash are utterly simple. I clear-coat the kit, let it dry several days, then come back with a little brown or mud color enamel paint diluted in thinner and slather it all over. When it dries it has left a dirty look over the whole kit and in particular down in panel lines. I'll use a thicker version of that on the wheels and running gear, tracks, etc. Once that dries I might use some other special washes like AK dust effects on the lower hull and so on. I'm not very good at it, IMHO, but it looks less "factory new" that way.

For actual rubber parts, I'm not sure. For plastic parts representing rubber, I usually paint them all with Valejo dark rubber, though I add a bit of white to lighten it a bit on DAK vehicles.

For tracks I have a few different methods...

With plastic tracks molded in silver colors, I leave them on the sprue, scrub with hot water and dish soap, let them dry. This helps get paint to stick. I spray several light coats of steel or silver color paint, then go over the top of that with a light coat of a dark gray color. I use some very fine sanding film to gently scrape the dark gray off the high spots so that it looks like dark tracks with shiny high spots from wear. Then I hit them with AK interactive track wash to get some rusty dirty looks going on.

Molded in dark colors I lay down some primer first and then do as I did above, going a bit thicker with the silver to make it easier to not cut straight through it.

With rubber tracks...I don't have a good method...
David W wrote:
23 Jun 2020, 15:23
There was a sticky thread on here or on Feldgrau detailing German vehicles used in North Africa up to and including October 1942.

I can't find it here, so I guess it must be on Feldgrau, which I can't access today.
I'll try to dig it up myself this weekend when I have more time. Thanks for the pointers! If you happen to stumble across it, I would still appreciate a link of course!

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#10

Post by David W » 24 Jun 2020, 10:19

Will do!

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#11

Post by yantaylor » 24 Jun 2020, 21:16

I know that this is not the model making thread, but I posted it there and only WWilson replied.
So what colours did you paint your British and Italian armour PM?

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#12

Post by PanzerModeler » 25 Jun 2020, 04:01

yantaylor wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 21:16
I know that this is not the model making thread, but I posted it there and only WWilson replied.
So what colours did you paint your British and Italian armour PM?
So I'll probably get some hate for this, but I used paints from two different sources...

I bought the AK interactive set and used the AK interactive caunter scheme set, using mostly the "Silver Grey", "Light Stone", and "Portland Stone" colors. Very early vehicles I used the Portland Stone as a base, with Silver Grey as a second color. Later vehicles I used the more sandy tan Light Stone as a base, with Silver Grey as a second color.

In both versions my third color was a bit of Tamiya XF-23 Light Blue touched up to be a bit more grey, used rather sparingly, to add a bit of blue to the scheme. Yhea, yhea, I know, the blue is wrong, it should be Slate or that weird green color, but when I was a kid British early war desert tanks had blue on them and that's how I did mine.


As for Italian armor...Well...In terms of Italian armor, I have no Italian armor...
Kinda just never got around to it!

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#13

Post by David W » 01 Jul 2020, 12:10


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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#14

Post by yantaylor » 01 Jul 2020, 20:47

Thanks David, it is good to see that list again.

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Re: DAK halftracks, Sd.Kfz250/251?

#15

Post by PanzerModeler » 06 Jul 2020, 00:06

Excellent!
Thanks for digging that up for us!

This is perfect, I was afraid that the question I was asking was simply too detailed and might never have an answer but it looks like my fears are unfounded.

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