Grille Normady 44

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yantaylor
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Grille Normady 44

#1

Post by yantaylor » 28 Jun 2020, 20:38

Hi everyone.

What ausf of Grille was more likely to be found serving with the SS Panzer Divisions during the Normandy Campaign, was it the Ausf H or Ausf M.
I bet both models served, but which one was more numerous.

Thanks
Ian

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Grille Normady 44

#2

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 28 Jun 2020, 22:30

Ian, not all the SS PD had Grille in Normandy, those that did were newly re-equipped and therefore likely to have the Ausf M. Those that didn't were 9, 10 and 12( six were dispatched to HJ in mid July but I don't know if/when they arrived), ignore what Zetterling says about 9 and 10 they were not issued any in time for Normandy, at least that is what "Fire Brigades" and Martin Block's listing say. LAH had 10 new Grille while DR had 12.
Alan


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Re: Grille Normady 44

#3

Post by yantaylor » 29 Jun 2020, 12:54

Thank you Alan.

The data I have regarding the 1st SS Pz Div Leibstandarte AH says;
In June 1944, the 17th IG Company of the 1st Panzergrenadeir Regiment and the 16th IG Company of the 2nd Panzergrenadeir Regiment, were re-equipped with self-propelled 150mm IGs and their Infantry guns were distributed to the battalions heavy comopanies.

Ian

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#4

Post by Sam Wren » 29 Jun 2020, 19:58

LAH had at least one of the newer version captured in Normandy:
SS-PzGrenRgt 1, Pz38tGrilleM, left front quarter.jpg
SS-PzGrenRgt 1, Pz38tGrilleM, Right side.jpg

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#5

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 29 Jun 2020, 21:37

yantaylor wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 12:54
Thank you Alan.

The data I have regarding the 1st SS Pz Div Leibstandarte AH says;
In June 1944, the 17th IG Company of the 1st Panzergrenadeir Regiment and the 16th IG Company of the 2nd Panzergrenadeir Regiment, were re-equipped with self-propelled 150mm IGs and their Infantry guns were distributed to the battalions heavy comopanies.

Ian
Ian, I don't know where you get that but LAH was a shell of its former self when it left the Eastern Front, there were no guns to be passed on to the heavy companies.
Alan

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#6

Post by yantaylor » 29 Jun 2020, 21:42

Hi Alan, it is from the Nafziger book, ''Waffen SS and other units''.

Ian

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#7

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 30 Jun 2020, 13:54

Sadly he is talking rot there and if you look at how he says the Pz Gren Regts were organised in May 1944 he has them already SP equipped. He just isn't reliable in this case I'm afraid. For example when the division was reforming it was doing so under up to date KStN and only had four companies per battalion and not five and so both Infantry Gun Companies were the 13th in their regiment.
Alan

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#8

Post by spannermann » 30 Jun 2020, 14:06

Hi,
I always understood that the vehicle in the photos was brought to England for evaluation from Normandy, hence WO on the side for War Office, and under the WO 163 is a tactical sign, but difficult to rear the company number.

Additionally the "blowtorch" was a nickname given to Peiper's unit after a successful rescue attempt of surrounded troops in Russia, so in which of the two Panzer Gren Regts was Peiper at the time, will tell you from which Pz Gren Rgt this Grille is from.

cheers PAUL
Pz38tGrilleM-Intel-Mark.jpg
Pz38tGrilleM-Intel-Mark.jpg (58.1 KiB) Viewed 1811 times

Michael Kenny
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Re: Grille Normady 44

#9

Post by Michael Kenny » 30 Jun 2020, 16:19

spannermann wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 14:06


Additionally the "blowtorch" was a nickname given to Peiper's unit after a successful rescue attempt of surrounded troops in Russia,
I thought it was a reference to Peiper's habit of setting fire to every town/village he came across

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#10

Post by Brad Hunter » 30 Jun 2020, 16:56

yantaylor wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 21:42
Hi Alan, it is from the Nafziger book, ''Waffen SS and other units''.

Ian
George Nafziger's Napoleonic stuff is first-rate. His WWII info is rife with errors, blunders, and mistranslations. I've had personal contact with George, and he's a really nice guy, but we don't use Nafziger's stuff for WWII references.

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#11

Post by spannermann » 30 Jun 2020, 21:48

Hi,
Apparently Peiper was the III Abteilung commander of SS PzGren Rgt 2 at the time of the rescue of surrounded troops, so this "blowtorch" Grille is from the 13(iG) Kp / SS Pz Gren Rgt 2, Normandy.

Seen similar blowtorch on a Marder when the ywere in Italy.

cheers Paul

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#12

Post by yantaylor » 30 Jun 2020, 21:58

Well I agree Brad, I apologize Alan, as this is not the first time I have quoted his books in this board, only to find the info inaccurate.

Ian

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#13

Post by Michael Kenny » 30 Jun 2020, 22:26

seaburn wrote:
10 Jul 2015, 12:24


"Even before I got to know Peiper, it was a matter of common knowledge that alongside Panzer-Meier he waged a ruthless war, that as a soldier he had great prowess to which even the other commanders of the division yielded. That where Panzer-Meier and Peiper were, trails of smoke from fires indicated their presence. As a symbol of this, his S.P.W. battalion wore the insignia of a 'blowtorch'.

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#14

Post by spannermann » 01 Jul 2020, 00:26

Hi,
This is what I have managed to find out about the action where the name Blowtorch came from, have read of his action described as "torching his way through enemy lines", once into their lines and once again out through their lines with then all wide awake, or the other explanation.

During the Third Battle of Kharkov, Peiper's battalion became known for an audacious rescue of the encircled 320th Infantry Division which involved approximately being behind enemy lines for about 100km. In a letter home, Peiper described hand-to-hand fighting with a Soviet ski battalion in an effort to lead the division, including its sick and wounded, to safety. The rescue culminated with a fierce battle with the Soviet forces at the village of Krasnaya Polyana. Upon entering the village, Peiper's troops made a terrible discovery. All the men in his small rearguard medical detachment who had been left there had been killed and then mutilated and 25 Germans killed by partisans and Soviet soldiers. As revenge, Peiper ordered the burning down of the whole village and the shooting of its inhabitants. (The testimony was obtained in November 1944 by the Western Allies.)

cheers Paul

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#15

Post by Denniss » 03 Jul 2020, 22:29

The later Grille built on Ausf. M chassis was aktually the Grille Ausf. K (for whatever reason)

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