Sd.Kfz 17

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 10 Sep 2020 17:28

You are also very generous with all the spare parts from those models !
Alan

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 11 Sep 2020 14:54

Hi Paul, I agree those 231s and 232s do look like PSC, but what about the four wheelers, the 222 etc. They are not PSC as they don't do a kit for the 222.
I was really disapointed when I found out that my ICM 1/72 Sd.Kfz 221-222-223 looked rather silly when place next to my PSC Sd.Kfz 231 and 232s.
just looking at the 2cm gun on my ICM, it looked like a pop gun compared to the rather thick version on the PSC kits.

I wish PSC would do more armoured cars.

I see you have some cars with bedstead and star anntena, would that be a good ratio to work from?

Ian

spannermann
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by spannermann » 11 Sep 2020 20:12

Hi Ian,
Made a mistake, the 222 and 223 are ICM kits, I just need another 15 to complete the company :-)

Yes agree about the ICM 222 barrels, but I had lots of PSC 2cm turrets left over from 250/9 versions, so all the ICM 222 have PSC turrets.

The 8 rads with different ariels have also late and early hull configurations, so have antenna to match, its also what a book on SS PzAA 10 showed.

Am slowly working my way through SS PzAA 10 in Normandy, only one company so far fully completed, and that is 5/SS PzAA 10 as in the attached photo. All the other companies and Stab are getting there sometime, maybe !!.

FYI the OOB of this heavy company in a Typ1943 PzAA is exactly the same as the OOB of the heavy company in a panzer divisions armoured battalion, they use all the same K.S.t.N.'s

You may want to look at the Heers 2nd Pz Division if you want to use Panthers and Pz Flak 38(t)'s, I seem to remember they have those tracked flaks also
Cheers PAUL
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yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 11 Sep 2020 20:48

They look great Paul, well done.
I am getting to the stage were decals and washes come into play, that is why I am trying to find a division to place my vehicles so that I can find decals to match.
Any ideas for a wash for my vehicles, maybe by Vallejo?

Ian

spannermann
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by spannermann » 12 Sep 2020 09:06

Hi Ian,
Have to say I have no idea what "a wash" is, or what Vallejo is either, something to do with finish I guess I just paint mine and then they collect dust.

cheers PAUL

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 12 Sep 2020 19:45

The colours look good though Paul.
Did you also change the turrets on the Sd.Kfz 232s?

Ian

spannermann
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by spannermann » 12 Sep 2020 20:33

Hi,
No changes to the 232 turrets, quite happy with the PSC ones, and did not have any other alternatives

Do not look at these models as being the ultimate of their type for detailed accuracy etc., they are what I call Representational Models, sort of correct but not in every last dot and comma by any means. The days of getting into that level of details have passed me by, just simple OK models from now on.

Apart from the 1st and 5th Companys of SS PzAA 10 that are posted above, there are groups of vehicles in the Stab, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Werkstatt companys, but not yet up to their correct numbers. Maybe will be there one day.

cheers PAUL

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 12 Sep 2020 20:59

Sorry Paul I meant the 223.

How did you make those star aerials, are they scatch built?
I hit a wall with my Pz Gen Company with the lack of HQ vehicles, I cant find any models of the Sd.Kfz 251/3 or 251/6. I think they both had frame aerials and no one makes them in 1/72.

Ian

spannermann
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by spannermann » 14 Sep 2020 14:43

Hi Ian,

The 223's are straight out of the box construction, for star aerials I made a "jig" and this enabled me to produce many identical aerials.

The 251 is for the Pz AA Stab group

CHEERS paul
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yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 14 Sep 2020 20:51

You made a 'jig' what does that mean Paul?

Ian

spannermann
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by spannermann » 14 Sep 2020 23:45

Hi,
A "jig" is any form of framework or tooling that enables an item to be assembled correctly over and over again. They exist for everything, the 251 hulls as an example will have a "jig" that will hold the separate plates together whilst they are welded into one piece, same for the chassis frame and many other componets. A standard engineering procedure.

So I made a box frame jig to enable the seven parts of a star aerial to be glued together again and again and again.

cheers PAUL

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 15 Sep 2020 20:31

Looking at the KStN 1114 c (gp), I can't see any Sd.Kfz 251/3s or 251/6s in the Company, did they phase them out to be replaced by either Sd.Kfz 251/10s or 251/17s with extra radios?
If so then I need to find a way of building star star aerials on the two halftracks loctated at company HQ and may the four command halftracks in the four Zugs.

Ian

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 16 Sep 2020 13:49

I do recall Gary and myself, going through the company headquarters personnel for the type of panzer grenadier company in service during the Normandy campaign, but we did it along the lines of the HQ being in Sd. Kfz 251/3s and not 251/10s or 251/17s. If for instance the company headquarters were in Sd. Kfz 251/10s, would it make a difference in personnel?

For a company HQ equipped with 251/3s I have this set up to be split between the two command halftracks;

Half-Track No 1
Company Commander
Company Sergeant
NCO/Radio Operator
Pvt/Messenger
Pvt/Driver

Half-Track No 2
NCO/Radio Repair
NCO/Medic
Pvt/stretcher bearer
2 x Pvt/Messengers-Radio Operators
Pvt/Driver

These totals do not reflect on the personnel which were mounted in the various extra vehicles in the HQ, for example, Kübelwagen, Kettenkrads and Motorcycles plus any which were back in the company train.

Now is this unit had Sd. Kfz 251/10s, would they include a gun crew?

BTW; In the KNsTs, you do get various letters relating to various personnel, for example "K" next to an officer and R and P next to others, what does this mean?

Ian

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 16 Sep 2020 18:39

Ian, just why would a company HQ have an SdKfz 251/10 ?
Alan

yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz 17

Post by yantaylor » 16 Sep 2020 20:06

Why Alan, Christian posted this the other day and seeing that the Sd. Kfz 251/17 was made to replace the 251/10, I would keep the 10 because I have this version in my batch of models.

The 1 November 1943 KStN 1114 c (gp) had the following complement of armored half-tracks:
• Kompanietrupp: 2 x Sd kfz 251/17
• Panzerzerstörer-Trupp: 1 x Sd kfz 251/17

Ian

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