Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
kerryboo
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Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by kerryboo » 13 Sep 2020 09:38

Hello all,
I have looked but so far found no reference to a slightly (approx 10 cm.) lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS 3-litre. Does anyone know of a source, or have any information, about such a model? I include scans of the normal model and the longer car for comparison. Note the gap between the door-tops and between the steps. it is also interesting to note the different spare-wheel mount on one of the cars
Many thanks,
Kerry.
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 13 Sep 2020 10:07

Or are the doors just smaller on the "lengthened" version ? The drivers' seat backs look to be in the same positions in both types and if the vehicle really was lengthened would thy not be in different positions relative to the space between the doors ?
Alan

spannermann
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by spannermann » 13 Sep 2020 14:31

Hi,
Could be smaller doors or longer chassis, civilian car details have wheelbase differences ;-

-Wanderer 10/50 PS Typ W11 1928 - 1930 had a wheelbase of 292 cm
-Wanderer 10/50 PS Typ W11 1930 - 1933 had a wheelbase of 300 cm
-Wanderer 12/65 PS Typ W14 1931 - 1932 had a wheelbase of 310 cm

If used as Kubelwagens with these early dates they would all have been Gruppe I versions, (i.e no doors long mudguards etc.,)

But Bart Vanderveen shows a W14 Kubel with doors and tricycle mudguards etc., and says 1933-36, hence is a Gruppe II version.

The obvious thing is that there is a 10cm wheelbase difference between the later W11 and the W14, so is the "longer" Kubel a W14 ??

cheers paul

SIS 5
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by SIS 5 » 13 Sep 2020 22:56

Hi Kerry, hi Alan, hi Paul,

a very interesting discussion. According to the datas in the book "Kraftfahrzeuge und Panzer" by Werner Oswald there were two versions of the Wanderer W 11: version 1 with 2540 ccm and 50 hp, wheelbase 300 cm, built from 1933 - 1936
W 11: version 2 with 2979 ccm and 60 hp, wheelbase 300 cm, built from 1937 - 1941
Maybe there was a version W 14 with 2970/2995 ccm and 65 hp, wheelbase 310 cm or a version W 26 with 2651 ccm and 62 hp, wheelbase 3150 cm. Unfortunately I don´t have any examples for this theory.

Best regards

Bert

kerryboo
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by kerryboo » 14 Sep 2020 10:43

Hello Alan Paul and Bert,
Thank you for the thoughtful answers.
I had not considered a reduction in size of the doors. But, to me, it makes no sense for the production line to be altered mid-production, the reduced size does not show any real advantage. But, that said, anything is possible in the time-frame! The seats do appear to be equally spaced, but the angles are very slighly different making direct comparison difficult. It is interesting to note that the driver's shoulders appear to be in the same positions relative to the doortop and seatback in all of the three scans. If correct this would imply that the driver's door remains the same in all, unless the front hinges were moved back.
I add two scans of the position of the maker's logo and the welding of the A-panel between the doors on two different examples. The position of the logo suggests an increase in width of the A-panel, but that would be equally applicable in the case of lengthening and reduction of door size.
I have never encountered a kuebel version of the W14, but, as we all know, that does not mean that it was not produced. Despite the fact that Bart Vanderveen has been shown to have made some errors, as have nearly all authors, I would incline towards believing him until proven incorrect. I have not seen the W14 photo which you mention Paul, please can you say which publication it was in?
Thank you all, once again, for taking the time to put forward very different possibilities.
Regards,
Kerry.
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SIS 5
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by SIS 5 » 14 Sep 2020 22:20

Hi Kerry,

here a pic of the lenthened Wanderer out of the book ""Kraftfahrzeuge und Panzer" by Werner Oswald. Interesting the subtitle to this pic: the newer version of the Wanderer W 11 with 12/60 hp 3 litre engine, open, 1937 in Ulm.

Best regards

Bert
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spannermann
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by spannermann » 14 Sep 2020 23:52

Hi,
Attached is the Bart Vanderveen data for a W14 Kubel, I have no idea if he was correct, and that it may be a W11, but it is what he said.

Agin like Kerry said, you cannot say that such a Kubel did not exist, it seems that nearly all models of any one particulat Marque could and maybe did have a Kubel version.

The story never ends.

cheers PAUL
pictures_0004.jpg
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SIS 5
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by SIS 5 » 16 Sep 2020 13:39

Hi Paul,

thank You very much for Your reply and the attachment of Bart Vanderveen's Wanderer W 14 Kübel in the "Observer's Army Vehicles Directory". Interesting, that in his book "Historic Military Vehicles Directory" from 1989 he used the same pic of a Wanderer Kübel, but gave the datas about the two models of this Kübel.

Regards

Bert
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spannermann
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Re: Lengthened Wanderer W11 12/60 PS?

Post by spannermann » 17 Sep 2020 16:55

Hi Bert and Kerry,

So, can anybody identify the Vanderveen W11 and the Vanderveen W 14 as to its true identity ? all I can observe is that the soldiers in the Vanderveen W14 vehicle look "small" to me, which suggests its the bigger W14, but...........that is pure guesswork and probably just an optical illusion.

If its a W11, both W II have a 300cm wheelbase, so the larger distance between the doors either means smaller doors or another bodywork differernce somewhere, possibly a slightly longer body and the same size doors.

cheers PAUL

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