Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
msktszb
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Location: Wa US

Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by msktszb » 12 Oct 2020 20:09

Hello
I have attached some photos of vehicles from the Flying Heritage Combat Arms Museum. The Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38t both show some marks or damage on the body. I'm curious if anyone knows what would cause these marks? The Pz.IV is in pretty rough shape - it's the Littlefield Pz.IV that was acquired from the Syrian war - but the Pz.Jg.38t was built after the war, using parts from damaged vehicles, so it hasn't seen action since assembly I would presume.
The marks are the small gouges on the Pz.IV around the open access covers, and the all over the side of the 38t. The 38t has similar marks on other surfaces.
Thanks
john
PzIV damage.jpeg
Jagdpanzer 38T damage small.jpg
Jagdpanzer 38T damage close up.jpeg
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Yoozername
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Re: Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by Yoozername » 13 Oct 2020 04:33

I would guess it was jack-hammered to remove zimmerit. But the Pz.Jg.38t never had zimmerit? It isn't battle damage.

Garry Redmon
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Re: Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by Garry Redmon » 13 Oct 2020 13:39

I believe it is done during the manufacture of the rolled plate. It is hammered to relieve stress on the plate so that it doesn't warp. Something like that.

msktszb
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Location: Wa US

Re: Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by msktszb » 14 Oct 2020 21:28

thanks for the responses guys. I hadn't considered either of those options.

Yoozername
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Re: Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by Yoozername » 15 Oct 2020 18:20

If you look at the Jgp 38t the marks are not all over that plate. Zoom in and you will see they are in vertical bands.

I suspect that since they are both thin plates for each vehicle, it might be some fitment method to bend the plate.

msktszb
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Joined: 01 Oct 2020 17:00
Location: Wa US

Re: Help identify damage on museum Pz.IV and Pz.Jg.38T

Post by msktszb » 15 Oct 2020 19:42

yeah, there is a "sinuous" quality to it - definitely some pattern as it moves, whereas the pzIV looks much more like random. There are more marks on the body of the PzIV, but they don't display this pattern either.
Also interesting is that, from the recent thread on the 38t armor quality ( viewtopic.php?f=47&t=252143 ) , the 38t armor was not hardened to the same degree as the pzIV but the marks look very similar. Perhaps that doesn't really matter in this case though - I don't know much about metal or armor.

marks on rear of pzIV
Image

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