Bergstrom (The Ardennes 1944-45 page 204) uses Duel In The Mist as one of his sources.
Panther 131 at Cheneux
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Last edited by Michael Kenny on 21 Oct 2020, 01:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Original quote:
Note the loose(as opposed to 'blown out') plate holding the drivers hatch.
I am at a loss to understand how this confusion came about.
As a bonus note the two wrecks in the background (blue squares) 'pushed' off the road
Which is then twisted into:Michael Kenny wrote: ↑19 Oct 2020, 23:44the loose plate on the hull top indicates an internal explosion.
My original statement is an accurate observation and can be confirmed by a careful study of area in the red square .Yoozername wrote: ↑20 Oct 2020, 22:15
The top plate was blown out by an internal explosion? That seems odd also. I have only seen one Panther that had that plate blown out. And it was missing its turret.
Note the loose(as opposed to 'blown out') plate holding the drivers hatch.
I am at a loss to understand how this confusion came about.
As a bonus note the two wrecks in the background (blue squares) 'pushed' off the road
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
No, it is just another assumption you make and mix in with some quotes. Modus Operandi.My original statement is an accurate observation and can be confirmed by a careful study of area in the red square .
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
This is a real example of what happens when you attempt to push a heavy vehicle off the road. Note the foreground and damage the bulldozer does to the road surface. Also, just moving 90 degrees drags up surface material. Pushing that heavy AFV against its tracks will tear up that surface also. Note that they won't get it far as there is an embankment and a slope across the road.
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
It was used as target practise by a Bofors gun crew from 634th AAA.Der Rittmeister wrote: ↑19 Oct 2020, 22:33Hello forum! I am currently researching the Battle of Cheneux and i struggle to find out what happened to this Panther Ausf. G number 131. I can't find out how it got destroyed. It has 13 different holes in it with different calibers i think. I also can't figure out how it got taken from that direction considering that the village of Cheneux is behind the wreck, upwards. The other side, downwards is towards the Cheneux bridge where the Germans came from. Does anybody have any information on this?
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
A few more fuzzy pics.......
Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.
Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.
Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Oh wow! Nice find! ThanksMichael Kenny wrote: ↑21 Oct 2020, 07:46A few more fuzzy pics.......
Fuzzy pic f.rt.jpg
Fuzzy pic f (2).jpg
Fuzzy pic f...jpg
Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.
Fuzzy pic f.bb .jpg
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
I need some clarification on these 'wrecks'.... Are they A or G? Or even more importantly, who filled in all the bomb holes in the road? or did they just drive off the road themselves? Where is the 'turtled' Shwimmywagon?
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Then start a new thread and ask there.
Tarmac?
Wimpey?
It is shown in 2 photos in this thread.
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Oh! No! kenny posturing as a Moderator.
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Actually, as the Op, you asked this....Der Rittmeister wrote: ↑21 Oct 2020, 13:28Oh wow! Nice find! ThanksMichael Kenny wrote: ↑21 Oct 2020, 07:46A few more fuzzy pics.......
Fuzzy pic f.rt.jpg
Fuzzy pic f (2).jpg
Fuzzy pic f...jpg
Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.
Fuzzy pic f.bb .jpg
You were mistaken regarding the location and direction of the Panther in question. See the map. I am not sure about your 'shot count/locations', but I might agree with you that it wasn't actually the air attack that 'burned that panther to the ground' (As some air Marshals or 'historials' reported). I have no doubt it was finally destroyed far from German lines, maybe not as flamboyant as some seem.Hello forum! I am currently researching the Battle of Cheneux and i struggle to find out what happened to this Panther Ausf. G number 131. I can't find out how it got destroyed. It has 13 different holes in it with different calibers i think. I also can't figure out how it got taken from that direction considering that the village of Cheneux is behind the wreck, upwards. The other side, downwards is towards the Cheneux bridge where the Germans came from. Does anybody have any information on this?
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
I have to thank the demonstrative Mk for this picture. It is very telling. As far as a timeline, it seems to show that the Panther, after the supposed destructive, flaming, torsion bar bending attack; As was reported in one episode, (and MK backed it since it was also citing his source); but seems in a somewhat recoverable condition.
Anyway. it is clearly in some recoverable state before being 'Bofered'. I thought that might be 57mm damage, but it is good to have at least some good information here. Note the condition of the Panther. I have said that it is speculative as far as what the p47s might do to either put the Panther as a M-kill, or to make it a hot flamey, melting mess as a source cited; but i leave it to others, to see the provided images, and decide for themselves.
Anyway. it is clearly in some recoverable state before being 'Bofered'. I thought that might be 57mm damage, but it is good to have at least some good information here. Note the condition of the Panther. I have said that it is speculative as far as what the p47s might do to either put the Panther as a M-kill, or to make it a hot flamey, melting mess as a source cited; but i leave it to others, to see the provided images, and decide for themselves.
Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Yes, I'm aware of that. I posted it for the sake of others who read the thread and don't have access to "Duel In The Mist".
Michael Kenny wrote: ↑21 Oct 2020, 01:22Bergstrom (The Ardennes 1944-45 page 204) uses Duel In The Mist as one of his sources.
Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux
Somoene mentioned that it was used for target practice, this seems likely.