Panther 131 at Cheneux

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Michael Kenny
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#16

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Oct 2020, 01:22

Ken S. wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 00:08
"The Ardennes, 1944-1945" by Christer Bergstrom
Bergstrom (The Ardennes 1944-45 page 204) uses Duel In The Mist as one of his sources.
Last edited by Michael Kenny on 21 Oct 2020, 01:48, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#17

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Oct 2020, 01:48

Original quote:
Michael Kenny wrote:
19 Oct 2020, 23:44
the loose plate on the hull top indicates an internal explosion.
Which is then twisted into:
Yoozername wrote:
20 Oct 2020, 22:15

The top plate was blown out by an internal explosion? That seems odd also. I have only seen one Panther that had that plate blown out. And it was missing its turret.
My original statement is an accurate observation and can be confirmed by a careful study of area in the red square .

ddf  6-20188.jpg
Note the loose(as opposed to 'blown out') plate holding the drivers hatch.


I am at a loss to understand how this confusion came about.

As a bonus note the two wrecks in the background (blue squares) 'pushed' off the road


Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#18

Post by Yoozername » 21 Oct 2020, 01:56

Ken S. wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 00:08
"The Ardennes, 1944-1945" by Christer Bergstrom
Screenshot 2020-10-20 at 6.05.22 PM.png

The Panther 131 has un-burned rubber on it's road wheels as well as non-collapsed suspension.

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#19

Post by Yoozername » 21 Oct 2020, 02:00

My original statement is an accurate observation and can be confirmed by a careful study of area in the red square .
No, it is just another assumption you make and mix in with some quotes. Modus Operandi.

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#20

Post by Yoozername » 21 Oct 2020, 02:04

This is a real example of what happens when you attempt to push a heavy vehicle off the road. Note the foreground and damage the bulldozer does to the road surface. Also, just moving 90 degrees drags up surface material. Pushing that heavy AFV against its tracks will tear up that surface also. Note that they won't get it far as there is an embankment and a slope across the road.

Image

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#21

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Oct 2020, 04:28

Der Rittmeister wrote:
19 Oct 2020, 22:33
Hello forum! I am currently researching the Battle of Cheneux and i struggle to find out what happened to this Panther Ausf. G number 131. I can't find out how it got destroyed. It has 13 different holes in it with different calibers i think. I also can't figure out how it got taken from that direction considering that the village of Cheneux is behind the wreck, upwards. The other side, downwards is towards the Cheneux bridge where the Germans came from. Does anybody have any information on this?

It was used as target practise by a Bofors gun crew from 634th AAA.
Screenshot_146_stitch.jpg
Attachments
Screenshot_127_stitch.jpg

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#22

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Oct 2020, 07:46

A few more fuzzy pics.......
Fuzzy pic f.rt.jpg
Fuzzy pic f (2).jpg
Fuzzy pic f...jpg
Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.

Fuzzy pic f.bb .jpg

Der Rittmeister

Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#23

Post by Der Rittmeister » 21 Oct 2020, 13:28

Michael Kenny wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 07:46
A few more fuzzy pics.......

Fuzzy pic f.rt.jpg
Fuzzy pic f (2).jpg

Fuzzy pic f...jpg

Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.


Fuzzy pic f.bb .jpg
Oh wow! Nice find! Thanks :thumbsup:

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#24

Post by Yoozername » 22 Oct 2020, 06:10

I need some clarification on these 'wrecks'.... Are they A or G? Or even more importantly, who filled in all the bomb holes in the road? or did they just drive off the road themselves? Where is the 'turtled' Shwimmywagon?
blurrythinking.jpg

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#25

Post by Michael Kenny » 22 Oct 2020, 06:17

Yoozername wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 06:10
I need some clarification on these 'wrecks'....
Then start a new thread and ask there.



Yoozername wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 06:10
who filled in all the bomb holes in the road?
Tarmac?
Wimpey?
Yoozername wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 06:10
Where is the 'turtled' Shwimmywagon/

It is shown in 2 photos in this thread.

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#26

Post by Yoozername » 22 Oct 2020, 06:18

Oh! No! kenny posturing as a Moderator.

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#27

Post by Yoozername » 22 Oct 2020, 06:25

Der Rittmeister wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 13:28
Michael Kenny wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 07:46
A few more fuzzy pics.......

Fuzzy pic f.rt.jpg
Fuzzy pic f (2).jpg

Fuzzy pic f...jpg

Ans a 4th wreck (other than the Panther) moved off the road.


Fuzzy pic f.bb .jpg
Oh wow! Nice find! Thanks :thumbsup:
Actually, as the Op, you asked this....
Hello forum! I am currently researching the Battle of Cheneux and i struggle to find out what happened to this Panther Ausf. G number 131. I can't find out how it got destroyed. It has 13 different holes in it with different calibers i think. I also can't figure out how it got taken from that direction considering that the village of Cheneux is behind the wreck, upwards. The other side, downwards is towards the Cheneux bridge where the Germans came from. Does anybody have any information on this?
You were mistaken regarding the location and direction of the Panther in question. See the map. I am not sure about your 'shot count/locations', but I might agree with you that it wasn't actually the air attack that 'burned that panther to the ground' (As some air Marshals or 'historials' reported). I have no doubt it was finally destroyed far from German lines, maybe not as flamboyant as some seem.

Yoozername
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#28

Post by Yoozername » 22 Oct 2020, 06:34

I have to thank the demonstrative Mk for this picture. It is very telling. As far as a timeline, it seems to show that the Panther, after the supposed destructive, flaming, torsion bar bending attack; As was reported in one episode, (and MK backed it since it was also citing his source); but seems in a somewhat recoverable condition.

Anyway. it is clearly in some recoverable state before being 'Bofered'. I thought that might be 57mm damage, but it is good to have at least some good information here. Note the condition of the Panther. I have said that it is speculative as far as what the p47s might do to either put the Panther as a M-kill, or to make it a hot flamey, melting mess as a source cited; but i leave it to others, to see the provided images, and decide for themselves. Image

Ken S.
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Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#29

Post by Ken S. » 23 Oct 2020, 02:49

Yes, I'm aware of that. I posted it for the sake of others who read the thread and don't have access to "Duel In The Mist".
Michael Kenny wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 01:22
Ken S. wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 00:08
"The Ardennes, 1944-1945" by Christer Bergstrom
Bergstrom (The Ardennes 1944-45 page 204) uses Duel In The Mist as one of his sources.

Der Rittmeister

Re: Panther 131 at Cheneux

#30

Post by Der Rittmeister » 23 Oct 2020, 16:04

Somoene mentioned that it was used for target practice, this seems likely.

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