Soviet 76mm divisional guns in german service.

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Peasant
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Soviet 76mm divisional guns in german service.

Post by Peasant » 20 Oct 2020 19:35

There's been said a lot about the modified 76mm divisional guns used by the Wehrmacht as Pak 36's but what about unmodified guns, including those mounted on captured tanks like T-34/76 and KV-1? I know that at first they used captured stores of soviet made ammunition but later on would set up production lines to manufacture their own designs. This is something I would like to explore: how much and what kind of propellant charge would they use? Did they issue any firing tables, service manuals for these guns?

There are two german made 7,62cm APCBC shells that I know of the 7,62cm PzGr.39 Rot (7,6kg) and the 7,62cm PzGr.39 (7,1kg) with large explosive cavity. Which one would've be used in rounds of ammunition for these guns? My intuition tells me the one with the smaller cavity because the other one seems to be very similar in design to the earlier 7,5cm K. Gr. rot Pz. which couldnt negotiate such high sticking velocities and deliver the explosive charge inside the armour, which germans considered paramount for a serviceable AP shell.
http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Heer/D ... _D/112.htm
http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Heer/D ... D/081c.htm

Here is some penetration data from Panzertruppen: The Complete Guide to the Creation and Combat Employment of Germany's Tank Force, 1933-1942: JENTZ THOMAS L.
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critical mass
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Re: Soviet 76mm divisional guns in german service.

Post by critical mass » 22 Oct 2020 19:45

I am not convinced there ever was a 7.62cm Pzgr.39. All data I have point to the 7.62cm Pzgr.39 rot. Even in cases where a 7.62cm Pzgr.39 is mentioned, the context of the document and other spots therein make clear that the addition "rot" wa sjust omitted for shortening.
A small filler 7.62cm Pzgr.39 was not needed because the 7.62cm guns were not high i.V.

Peasant
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Re: Soviet 76mm divisional guns in german service.

Post by Peasant » 22 Oct 2020 21:10

critical mass wrote:
22 Oct 2020 19:45
I am not convinced there ever was a 7.62cm Pzgr.39. All data I have point to the 7.62cm Pzgr.39 rot. Even in cases where a 7.62cm Pzgr.39 is mentioned, the context of the document and other spots therein make clear that the addition "rot" wa sjust omitted for shortening.
A small filler 7.62cm Pzgr.39 was not needed because the 7.62cm guns were not high i.V.
I'm confused by your post. As you can see from the links I've left in my previous comment, the "rot" shell had the smaller filler than the one without this suffix. Are you saying it was the other way around?

662m/s is far outside the range where the early large filler APCBC shell could reliably(by german standards) stay intact at 30° impact. Or am I wrong?

Miles Krogfus
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Re: Soviet 76mm divisional guns in german service.

Post by Miles Krogfus » 23 Oct 2020 21:03

An example of the 7.62 cm AP projectiles the Germans used with captured Russian guns:
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