Unknown Panzer 38

[Jarnob]

Hi all,

normally i would find any information about a panzer photograph by myself, but this one is an headache...

It is a panzer 38 with a soldier sitting on its rear and with a very strange looking German cross.
The cross is handpainted on the turret side in a very crude manner, it almost seems to be 'sticking out'.
The soldier is doesnt wear an early type outfit. The area in the background seems Southern-Germany, Austrian.

Has anybody seen this type of cross before? Why would they handpaint a cross this way on a turret - this was only done early campaigns on beutepanzers. Besides this it would be a (very) light grey overall painted Panzer 38, which is also weird because these were normally white-washed during 'snowy campaigns'.

Thoughts anybody??

[Sid Guttridge]

Could it be a "Mihai Cross" as used by the Romanians? This had V-shaped indented ends to the bars on the cross, which your photo seems to show.

The Romanians received 50 Pzkpfw 38ts in 1943 and they were sent to the Kuban and Crimea.

The V-shaped indented ends turned each arm of the cross into an elongated "M", signifying King Mihai while retaining the general cross shape used by several Axis minor allies.

See: https://www.google.co.uk/search?source= ... 00&bih=782

Cheers,

Sid.

[Jarnob]

Hi Sid,

yea i know about rumanien panzers. Have some in my collection. I know about the mikhails cross and this is not the cross depicted on this panzer 38 unfortunately Also the Romanian tankcrews wore different uniforms and most times black barrets; if this soldier had these type of uniform/head gear then it would be clear. But its not a romian cross and it looks like a german soldier.

tumblr_prh7crV6AT1ws46zho1_500.jpg (37.9 KiB) Viewed 4220 times

https://bmashine.tumblr.com/tagged/Romania

i would think the panzer 38 of my photograph as a late war or non-heer/waffen-ss unit or training unit tank....?

regards, Jarno

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Jarnob,

I am not suggesting the soldier may be Romanian, just that the tank might be due to the apparent V-shaped indentations on the ends of the arms of the cross.

Nor does the Mihai Cross necessarily have to be consistently painted to a single template.

Anyway, I leave it up to you to have a closer look at the cross and decide for yourself.

I can only cast my bread upon the water, as they say.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Jarnob]

Hi Sid,

please don't be offended; i truly appreciate your input! First i thought it to be a different kind of cross too - like the Miha Cross.
But when i zoom in the v-shape looks like being due to 'rough painting'- like the upper and lower bars have a different width too.
Then again, guess it could be done by a Rumanian in a hurry but then again i never saw grey on white; only white(yellow) on grey.
Its really weird....

20210113_135234.jpg (43.67 KiB) Viewed 4190 times

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Jarnob,

Looking at the close up, it looks more like your "rough painting" than a Mihai Cross.

Happy hunting.

Cheers,

Sid.

[jpl62]

Hi Jarnob;

Could this be a captured vehicle from the Slovak army during the Slovak uprising in 1944 with a temporary balkan cross applied by the Germans? The vehicle appears to be painted in dunkelgelb and the soldiers uniform appears correct for that time span.

regards
Jonathan

[nuyt]

Hi Jarnob;

Could this be a captured vehicle from the Slovak army during the Slovak uprising in 1944 with a temporary balkan cross applied by the Germans? The vehicle appears to be painted in dunkelgelb and the soldiers uniform appears correct for that time span.

regards
Jonathan

My line of thinking too, well said.

[Jarnob]

Jonathan,
It could be... youre right the slovaks used overall dunkelgelb and also light grey painted panzer 38's during the uprising in 1944. All were captured by the germans. Removing the slovak shield and painting an ad hoc german cross would make sense because of the chaotic and fluid combat actions of the german army during these final 6 months of ww2. The area visible in the background could also very well be Slovakia...

[nuyt]

Jarnob, the scenery could be almost anywhere in Europe, but that cross.. We can narrow it down to Hungarian (they had some wide range of markings), Rumanian or recaptured from Slovaks...

[Jarnob]

Tx all, i guess you guys could all be right - you also Sid about the (ad hoc painted) Miha cross.
Thinking about the Hungarian and Rumanian forces late war - and all of their used national markings - i think it would be most logical a late war German captured panzer 38. Since all nations, inclusive Russian captured Panzer 38's, were fighting around these nations area's it will be very hard to tell from which country it originated. And it could very well be Rumanian and Hungarian forces also hand painted crosses (although i have never read about this or see pictures of these - only German forces doing this).
Although the color seems to be dunkelgelb/very light greyish. And the paint does not seem to have had 4 years of heavy combat; practically no chipping.
So 'fresh' painted would still make it most likely a Slovak uprising panzer 38... guess we'll never know for sure! tx again

[Алексей]

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Алексей,

Many thanks. That makes it rather clearer and definitively sinks my Mihai Cross theory!

Cheers,

Sid.

[Jarnob]

Hi Алексей,

Thank you for the reply! May i ask were you found this photograph? The one i have is much sharper except for the cross. Which is a bit weird since the other part of the photograph is as sharp as yours....

Greets, Jarno

[Алексей]