21 st Panzer, Normandy

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Simon Trew 1
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#76

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 17 Jan 2022, 17:32

Back to the assault gun battalion:

I found the document I mentioned in my post of 10 January. The translation refers to an "original German document" but gives no date. Therefore, although clearly a serious piece of tactical doctrine, it might have been superseded at a later date. Still, it was almost certainly captured in Normandy so I guess it should be taken as quite a good guide.

It is clear from the 'Introduction' that the basis for organisation and operation was the 10-gun troop, and that the aspiration was to have a battalion consisting of SIX troops. Each troop to consist of ONE Pak platoon (four x 7.5cm) and TWO 'light field howitzer' (10.5cm) platoons. These are to be "employed together but have different fire tasks" (no surprise there).

Otherwise, in summary:

General principles: assault guns to be used at schwerpunkt, emphasis is on infantry support both in attack and defence. "The main objective of the assault guns is to enable the panzergrenadiers to fight their way through the main defence belt." Assault guns to follow infantry, firing only from stationary positions "the [7.5cm] assault gun in direct fire, the assault howitzer usually in indirect fire. The [7.5cm] assault gun always fires from a masked position and the howitzer from a concealed position."

Employment: Concentration of force - the smallest fighting unit is the troop. Do not subordinate them - cooperation is essential. Key ideas = surprise, use natural cover, exploit terrain, liaise very closely with infantry in making and executing plans. Don't go into woodland, don't fight at night. "The assault gun equipped with Pak 40 is especially suitable for close combat against tanks." Important to carry out regular servicing and maintenance.

Infantry assign missions, but troops get their orders from the assault gun battalion commander. Battalion commander to be with the troops from the time of commencement of battle. He is in charge and it is his job to maintain really close liaison with the infantry.

Employment of a troop: Troop commander directs the troop from his observation tank. "He drives with the Pak platoon or places himself to the side or at the back for better vision and observation. The Pak platoon [singular] is employed to engage the target with direct fire from a camouflaged position. The troop commander transmits instructions to the Pak platoon with wireless, possibly also directly to individual assault guns."

"Employment under the new [sic] organisation is only likely to be successful of the howitzer platoons [plural] are in constant readiness for action." Commander must always be informed of where his howitzers are. Gun Position Officer ("preferably the senior officer of the troop") is detailed to the howitzers and "supervises the fire of the howitzer platoons [plural] from his position in the signals tank."

Special tasks of GPO: speedy occupation of favourable fire positions and equally speedy reporting to troop commander and battalion commander. Continuous reporting.

Since guns don't carry much ammo, armoured ammo transport must stay within sight (300 metres).

10 Commandments for employment of assault guns.

[Not listed - I have to go out now, if anybody is interested say so and I will summarise later.]

Employment in defence - ditto.

Order is accompanied by detailed organisation information. This clearly specifies battalion consists of an HQ, an HQ troop and six identical gun troops. Each gun troop to have four Pak 40s and 6 light field howitzers.

Simon Trew 1
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#77

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 17 Jan 2022, 20:43

To clarify and continue:

In the stuff above it is a bit ambiguous about who is the GPO - it looks from what I wrote as if the Troop CO is doing both that job and accompanying the Pak platoon. To clarify - it is the OO who is GPO.

The 10 commandments:

1. Constant contact between the infantry commander and assault gun commander under all battle conditions. Panzergrenadiers must assign runners to assault gun units who will be employed during the battle in case other systems fail.
2. Assault guns stay in their jumping-off positions during the battle as long as targets can be engaged, thereby supporting the assault.
3. During battle, assault gun commander must identify his next firing position, ideally from his former position or - if that is impossible - when moving forward. An indirect firing position is good if the gun can fire before being recognised and if the position can't be identified when fire is opened.
4. Movement is to make effective use of cover.
5. Change of position only with covering fire. Guns to move individually.
6. No more than the immediately required number of guns are to be sent forward. The remainder to disperse and follow up, making full use of terrain. They are always used for flank protection.
7. Movement from one fire position to another takes place at increased speed.
8. Camouflage of guns essential.
9. Restocking of ammunition to take place in a way so that at least half the guns remain available to engage the enemy.
10. If battle conditions permit, move forward must take place with the gun locked in its travel position.

Employment in defence [interesting to relate this to Goodwood]

1. Assault guns are always to be used offensively ['aggressively' might be better?] in defensive operations. They support immediate [hasty - gegenstoss] counter-attacks and prepared [gegenangriff] counter-attacks. Timely counter-attack with assault gun support usually brings failure to the enemy attack.
2. in defence, guns to be located in close order, as far behind the main defence belt as the area to be protected is wide. Only then are they in a position to get to the "local point of the defence" [needs a better translation, would be helpful to see the original German document] quickly or to support the counter-attack. By untimely employment and uselessly holding them in the front line, the higher commander loses control of his defence and mobile reserve, commits them prematurely, places them in unnecessary danger and prevents opportunities for maintenance. Digging in in the main defence belt is wrong at all times.
3. if defence is being carried out chiefly with artillery, the six assault howitzers of each troop can be used in indirect fire to strengthen the artillery point of main effort. The remaining assault guns of each troop are left available as AT or reserve platoons. The reserve platoons must not be split up. During delaying actions, assault guns can delay the enemy and ease the retreat. But they need local protection.

And that's it.


Sean Oliver
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#78

Post by Sean Oliver » 03 May 2022, 23:21

Simon Trew: Thank you for the impressive 21.Pz.Div bibliography.
This question is directed at everyone:

I know of ww2talk, but are there any other forums or sites which have uploaded 21st AG, WO or IWM or other primary documentation from the British forces in the NWE 44-45 campaign?
I know there's Canadian sites but what about British?

German Docs in Russia also has 192.Pz.Gren.Rgt. Ia KTB plus Anlagen June 1944 to Dec 1944 (approx 100 pages) under 'Regiments' 12482"
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... rid/zoom/1
Curiously, this folder also includes a few misfiled pages from the Activity Report of H.Kusten-Art.Rgt.977 same period, (20 pages) plus a 3 page report on the formation and TOE of Pz.A.A. 'Brandendburg' Nov'44-Jan'45.

Also, the UC Berkeley map has sheets from 2 different high-quality 1:25,000 1940's German Heer maps of France.
One set is full-color and Berekely has most of the Normandy coast and Cherbourg. Colored sheets at 25k are obviously preferable to the B+W GSGS sheets, but the German maps have slight problems too. Here is the 'German' 25k version of the Caen-Goodwood area which has some distracting orange overprint (LW?):
https://digicoll.lib.berkeley.edu/recor ... 734%2C7327
Unfortunately the coverage doesn't include areas to the south. There is an index available.
The other set is B+W, but doesn't include Normandy.

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Sheldrake
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#79

Post by Sheldrake » 04 May 2022, 01:19

Sean Oliver wrote:
03 May 2022, 23:21
Also, the UC Berkeley map has sheets from 2 different high-quality 1:25,000 1940's German Heer maps of France.
One set is full-color and Berekely has most of the Normandy coast and Cherbourg. Colored sheets at 25k are obviously preferable to the B+W GSGS sheets, but the German maps have slight problems too. Here is the 'German' 25k version of the Caen-Goodwood area which has some distracting orange overprint (LW?):
https://digicoll.lib.berkeley.edu/recor ... 734%2C7327
Unfortunately the coverage doesn't include areas to the south. There is an index available.
The other set is B+W, but doesn't include Normandy.
This is an interesting set of maps. It is a little remarkable for the lack of coverage of the area between Caen and Bayeux which was the area into which the Germans were hoping to drive the allies into the sea. In his post war interrogation/interview, the artillery commander of 1st SS Corps mentioned the lack of 1:25,000 maps as one of the problems they faced - at least in part attributed to the dispute between Army Group B (Rommel) and Panzer Group West (von Rundstedt and Von Schweppenburg) about the deployment of reserves.

Michael Kenny
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#80

Post by Michael Kenny » 04 May 2022, 02:44

The area Bayeux-Caen-Dives sur Mer has complete coverage from the sea to the Odon on a line running Mouen to Cagny. The vertical strips are roman numerals from west to east. XV-11 is Bayeux. XVI is Caen & XVII is La Havre. The horizontal strips are Arabic and numbered north to south. For Normandy 11 is the coast and Caen is in strip 12 .

Sean Oliver
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#81

Post by Sean Oliver » 04 May 2022, 21:22

Whenever German frontline troops lacked enough printed maps to go around, they simply traced up a few sketches copied from a 25k or 50k map or used other improvised DIY cartography methods. The map of 200.Stug.Abt on July 18 1944 (I posted it above) is an example of this, and there are many more throughout the various online collections of German docs.

That said, their manuals stressed the importance of inspecting the ground personally as much as as possible and if available use recent aerial photos rather than printed maps which were sometimes based on outdated surveys, or might display features like road and bridge conditions inaccurately.

Patrolling and recon of the terrain and pinpointing the enemy's positions was regarded as routine 24-7 missions for German infantry, and was especially important after any major change of positions i.e. after an Allied advance. These patrols were sometimes reported as 'German counterattacks which were successfully defeated' when in truth, the German mission succeeded. This is why it's essential to carefully compare both sides' daily wartime records and reports and immediate aftermath of the same situation as much as possible before reaching any conclusions.

The UC Berkeley library does not have the complete set, obviously. That's typical of map libraries and their German 2WW map collections.

These maps were drawn up in 1943 I think, based on aerial LW photography and captured French materials IIRC. Details in the margins.
These maps often say 'Als Schiesskarte geeignet' (Authorized for Map Targeting'). Whenever I see that on German maps, I always wonder if some smart-ass General Staff cartographer ever got away with writing 'Als Scheisskarte geeignet' or roughly 'Suitable as Toilet-Paper' :roll:

BTW, did anybody notice something very peculiar about the 'Epsom Area' map showing west of Caen Cheux Carpiquet etc ( XV-12 7/8 ) ?
The Odon Riv suddenly ends just west of Caen! Weird. I wonder why. Maybe they ran out of blue ink. Or the cartographer was transferred to the Infanterie before he could finish drawing it....hehe

The Germans made beautiful maps during WW2, but the best looking WW2 era maps I've seen are the Polish General Staff 100k maps of Poland circa 1933-39. Full color, gorgeous detail, (maybe too much) but still very readable. Here's one example, outside Warsaw at 600 DPI so it might take a few seconds to appear:
http://maps.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/seri ... 288521.jpg

http://english.mapywig.org/news.php is a Polish map site with an enormous collection of uploaded WW1 and WW2 era topo maps of eastern Europe and Russia in every scale, and a few from the western front. They also have hundreds of wartime cartographic books guides gazetteers and handbooks from all sides and languages. Fantastic!

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Sheldrake
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#82

Post by Sheldrake » 05 May 2022, 13:25

My comment was based on the report in FMS B832 SS General Leutnant A.D. Staudiger. Sure the Germans had 1:25,000 maps, but did not print enough of the coverage inland from the coast to allow for all the artillerymen who needed to have their own map. 1:25,000 Maps were detailed enough to measure an azimuth and distance with a ruler and protractor accurate enough for acceptable artillery firing calculations.

You can shoot without a 1:25,000 map but it will take longer to adjust the rounds on target.

Sean Oliver
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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#83

Post by Sean Oliver » 06 May 2022, 20:34

Maybe the Berkeley Map Library does have all the available sheets, the Germans never finished mapping inland. B-832 unavailable at Sturmpanzer.com, has it by any chance been reprinted anywhere else? Does Staudiger give any more details about this?

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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#84

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 21 Jun 2022, 14:41

Sean,

Sorry for the considerable delay in saying so, but thank you for the link to the 192nd PzGr Regt KTB (your post of 3 May). Either I missed that when I was going through German Docs in Russia, or it is an addition since I last went there. Sounds like time to go back and do another check.

On German 1:25000 Normandy maps, there are many in the Map Department at the British Library, Euston. I accessed them back in 2004 but haven't looked again since then. Somewhere I have pencil notes that give the reference and (I think) a list of the maps that they have there. Unfortunately, I have no idea where those notes are at the moment. But if a visit to the BL is possible, it ought not to be too hard to locate them - I did that and several other things in a single day visit.

Hope this helps.

Simon

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Re: 21 st Panzer, Normandy

#85

Post by Michael Kenny » 04 Oct 2023, 03:31


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