Panzer Brigade 112, Lorraine 1944

[Rooster]

Hello, my first post.

I read in one of Mr. Bayerlein's posts that he has some pics of Panthers from Panzer Brigade 112 in action in Lorraine.
Can you post them up for us all to enjoy, please?

Likewise, it would be great to see other's pics of the same subject, not necessarily Panthers but any armour of Pz Brig 112.

Thanks to all,

Barry

[Bayerlein spirit]

Panzer Brigade 112

Formed: September 4th, 1944

Composed of:


2112th Panzer Battalion

1 Staff Platoon
1 Panzer Flak Platoon
3 Medium Panzer Companies (Mk V)
1 Sturmgeschutz Company

1/29th Panzer Regiment (3 cos, 14 Mk V Panthers each)
1/2/2112th Panzer Grenadier Regiment

3 (mot) Panzer Grenadier Companies per Battalion
1 (mot) Pioneer Company (2 HMGs, 12 LMGs, 2 80mm mortars & 18 flame throwers)
1 (mot) Mortar Company (8 120mm mortars)
1 (mot) Flak Company (2 platoons 20mm guns)
1 Panzerjaeger Company

1 (mot) Platoon
1 Self Propelled Platoon

2112th Brigade Support Units
2112th Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion
2112th Sturmgeschutz Battalion (10 Stugs & 12 LMGs)

Fate: Disbanded and intergrated into the 21st Panzer Division on September 23rd, 1944.


1....Two of For Panthers destroyed one 112 ( Railway station-Saint Dié the 3th sept 1944 )....According with the "Centre de documentation de la résistance et de la déportation du Rhône".
So you can see the marking without outline on the turret, it seems to be 111 or 113 Panzer Brigade...Or maybe different marking in the same unit, who knows...

2....Panther 332 captured near Dompaire 13 09 1944
3....One Panther IN2 ko'ed near Dompaire 12 09 1944

Archive Maison départementale de Lorraine.
Centre de documentataion du Rhône.

[Bayerlein spirit]

1...Two Panthers captured in Dompaire by French FFI before exhibition in Paris

2...Panther Exhibition Paris 1944 ( jardins des tuileries )

3...Panther exhibition Paris 1944 ( jardins des tuileries )

Archive Centre de documentataion du Rhône.

[Rooster]

Fantastic to see the camouflage pattern so clearly on the specimen in the dump .

Thanks again,

Barry

[Loz Sims]

Also my first post so, hi to all!

A question for Bayerlein Spirit,

Can I ask what your source is for the info on the 112 Panzer Brigade? I don't know how reliable my source is (Die gepanzerten und motorisierten deutschen Großverbände 1935 - 1945 by Rolf Stoves) but it gives different info for this unit. The differences being:

Formed 5th September 1944 in Grafenwöhr.

2112th Panzer Abt contained:

3 medium Pz Companies with a mixed total of 40 Pz IV and Pz V in an unknown ratio. He mentions later only 1 company had Panthers so I presume only 12/13 of the 40 were Panthers.

No StuG company but a schw. Pz Jg Kp. 2112 with 11 JagdPz IV.

No mention of Panther Abt I/29th Pz Reg, according to R. Stoves this was assigned to Pz Brig 113 not 112 (and later went on to form the basis for Pz Div Müncheberg).

He does mention that Panther Abt I/Pz Lehr Reg 130 with 3 companies was attached. (Or am I getting confused with designations which changed later?) However, he mentions the air attack on September 19th in Hannecourt-Dambus which disabled (not destroyed) 60% of its Panther's from the Pz Lehr Abt.

He goes on to say Pz Brig 112 was subjugated to the 21Pz Div on 14th September 1944, but the Brigade wasn't dissolved until the middle of October 1944. The Panthers from the I/130 were handed over to Pz Abt 2112 and the Lehr Abt was sent east for refitting. The remnants of Pz Abt 2112 with its 25 Pz IV and 10 Panther were absorbed into Panzer Abt 22 when the unit was dissolved.

This info seems to have been taken from "Pz Brigade 106 »FHH«" by F. Bruns.

I would be very interested to hear if you know this information to be inaccurate or if you have more detailed figures for this unit as I know there is much controversy about the number of Panthers which may have been disabled by the air attack on the 19th/20th September.

(BTW Nice pictures )

[Bayerlein spirit]

thanks for info, I will post more information about 112 and source, yes not clear between 111, 112, 113 there is different info for those units.

[Loz Sims]

Just thought I'd bump this back to the top.

Bayerlein Spirit, have you managed to find out anything else about these Pz Brigades? I'm still interested in finding out more about Pz Brg 112.

[Wolfkin]

Hmmmm...interesting how sometimes different sources give different information...ahh!...the joys of research, eh?

Anyways, here is what I found on page 194 of Panzertruppen Volume 2 by Jentz:

Panzer Brigade 112

Panzer Abteilung 2112 with 46 PzKpfw IV, 10 StuG, 4 Flakpz IV

attached was I/PzRegt 29 with 45 PzKpfw V, 4 Flakpz IV

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Loz Sims]

Doh! Believe it or not I actually forgot to look in Panzertruppen! It is a pitty Jentz doesn't supply his sources though.

It would be nice to see a strength chart like in "Panzer Voran!" but I doubt if that exists.

Cheers though.

[Wolfkin]

Hello Loz Sims!

Yes, I understand what you mean. Jentz does not list his sources, it just says "by digging through original records for the last 25 years...war diaries, reports, technical and tactical manuals"...but which ones?

I bet that is what just about everyone is wondering...which records and such did he use? Great sources of information, his books, but we just do not know where it comes from. Like you said, a pity.

He does have a list of recommended books in Appendix E on page 285 of Volume 1. I wonder if some of these would have a few hints? The Niehorster German WWII Organizational Series is one of the recommended books.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Kelvin]

Also my first post so, hi to all!

A question for Bayerlein Spirit,

Can I ask what your source is for the info on the 112 Panzer Brigade? I don't know how reliable my source is (Die gepanzerten und motorisierten deutschen Großverbände 1935 - 1945 by Rolf Stoves) but it gives different info for this unit. The differences being:

Formed 5th September 1944 in Grafenwöhr.

2112th Panzer Abt contained:

3 medium Pz Companies with a mixed total of 40 Pz IV and Pz V in an unknown ratio. He mentions later only 1 company had Panthers so I presume only 12/13 of the 40 were Panthers.

No StuG company but a schw. Pz Jg Kp. 2112 with 11 JagdPz IV.

No mention of Panther Abt I/29th Pz Reg, according to R. Stoves this was assigned to Pz Brig 113 not 112 (and later went on to form the basis for Pz Div Müncheberg).

He does mention that Panther Abt I/Pz Lehr Reg 130 with 3 companies was attached. (Or am I getting confused with designations which changed later?) However, he mentions the air attack on September 19th in Hannecourt-Dambus which disabled (not destroyed) 60% of its Panther's from the Pz Lehr Abt.

He goes on to say Pz Brig 112 was subjugated to the 21Pz Div on 14th September 1944, but the Brigade wasn't dissolved until the middle of October 1944. The Panthers from the I/130 were handed over to Pz Abt 2112 and the Lehr Abt was sent east for refitting. The remnants of Pz Abt 2112 with its 25 Pz IV and 10 Panther were absorbed into Panzer Abt 22 when the unit was dissolved.

This info seems to have been taken from "Pz Brigade 106 »FHH«" by F. Bruns.

I would be very interested to hear if you know this information to be inaccurate or if you have more detailed figures for this unit as I know there is much controversy about the number of Panthers which may have been disabled by the air attack on the 19th/20th September.

(BTW Nice pictures )

I./Pz.Rgt.29 was attached to 112. Pz Brigade and later it left all its tanks to I./Pz.Rgt. 22 of 21. Panzer Division.

[Alanmccoubrey]

Pz Bde 112 is not on the list of units issued with JgdPz IV L/70 that Martin Block put together so it would seem that they did have StuG III.

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 883#160883