Jagdpanzer IV

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seele02
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Jagdpanzer IV

Post by seele02 » 24 Apr 2004 14:23

Hi,
In what Waffen-SS Units were Jagdpanzer IVs used? And from when on was the L/70 fighting in a W-SS unit?
Thanks in advice!

seele02

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Alter Mann
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StG IV

Post by Alter Mann » 24 Apr 2004 15:38

My reference suggests that the Sturmgeschutz IV with Sd Kfz number 162 was issued to the 12th SS Panzer Division just before Normandy, as well as many other units.

The 162/1 version with the L70 gun isn't specefically mentioned as having been issued to any particular SS units although it does say that some were issued to ' . . . the tank hunter detachments of the Panzer divisions.'

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seele02
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Post by seele02 » 25 Apr 2004 12:18

Thanks, does anyone know if there were L48 barelled versions WITHOUT Zimmerit!
If anyone has pics of SS-Jagdpanzer IVs, please post em!

IS there anyone else with an Idea of SS-Units using the JagdPz. IV? I only know that in Normandy and in Ardennes 12.SS Pz. used them !

Sebastian

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Dan Reinbold
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Post by Dan Reinbold » 25 Apr 2004 18:33

Sebastian,

According to Niklas Zetterling's book "Normandy 1944" the following units also had JagdPz IV's in Normandy in May/June 1944:

2.Panzer Div. - 16 vehicles
12.SS Panzer Div. - 10 vehicles (did not arrive until Aug 5/44)
116. Panzer Div. - 21 vehicles (July 1944)
Panzer Lehr Div. - 31 vehciles

I hope this helps,

Dan

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seele02
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Post by seele02 » 25 Apr 2004 18:37

thanks very much dan!!!
do you know if the JPIVs of the "Hitlerjugend" Division were without Zimmerit ? Or was there no L/48 without zimmerit?

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Dan Reinbold
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Post by Dan Reinbold » 25 Apr 2004 18:43

Most of the pictures that I have seen have the Zimmerit...but I am sure there we some that did not. But I can't confirm this...anyone have pictures they could share?

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 25 Apr 2004 18:59

Sorry guys, wrong section.
Got to move you............ :wink:

EE

Paul Hanson
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Jagdpanzer IV allocations

Post by Paul Hanson » 25 Apr 2004 20:38

If this posts great, I have not been able to access the site to post for over a month. I don't know what's happening but here goes

The allocations are all given in Spielberger and Jentz's *Leichte Jagdpanzer.* They've been given here a couple of times. To save some typing and muttering, the following is taken from an AFVN post, which I can't properly acknowledge as I can't search their old messages since they changed addresses.

All this info seems to be straight out of Spielberger and looks generally correct, but I haven't checked each line carefully. For a more accurate version that rectifies some of the number discrepancies, you'll have to wait until the search engine here is back up.

"JAGDPANZER IV:
SSPzJgAbt.12[12.SSPzDiv] received 21
SSPzJgAbt.17[17.SSPzGrDiv] received 31
SSPzJgAbt.5[5.SS.PzDiv] received 21
SSPzJgAbt.9[9.SSPzDiv] received 21
SSPzJgAbt.10[10.SSPzDiv] received 21
SSPzJgAbt.4[4.SSPzDiv] received 31

"As you can see for the allocation of Jagdpanver IVs then were sent to equip the PzJgAbt. in various Panzer and Panzer Grenadier Divisions. The organization was
for 31 Jagdpanzer IVs in the PzJgAbts was with 10 in each of 3 companies and i in the Stab. Since there were not enought Jagdpanzer IVs to go around most units
received 21 with Stab and two companies equipped. The third company generall had towed PaK guns. Deliveries of this vehicle began in April 1944 and ended in
November 1944.

"PANZER IV/70(V):
SSPzJgAbt.1[1.SSPzDiv] received 21 then 11
SSPzJgAbt.12[12.SSPzDiv] received 21 then 21
SSPzJgAbt.2[2.SSPzDiv] received 20 then 8
SSPzJgAbt.9[9.SSPzDiv] received 21 then 12
SSPzJgAbt.10[10.SSPzDiv] received 10
SSPzJgAbt.11[11.SSPzGr.Div.] received 10
PzJgAbt.43[8.PzDiv.] received 10
PzJgAbt.92[20.PzDiv.] received 10


PH
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Jagdanzer IV/48

Post by Paul Hanson » 25 Apr 2004 20:44

Yea! I'm in. The above post was from Dave Zimmer over at M-L. Here's a breakdown of Jagdpanzer IV/48 allocations from Martin Block:

Here comes a compilation of units that received Jagdpz. IV (Sd.Kfz. 162) and the status of vehicles on hand at the end of 1944 from my data collection:

Division / number shipped from HZA / month of allocation [still on hand 30.12.44]
2. Pz.Div. / 21 / Apr 44 [1]
3. Pz.Div. / 21 / Aug 44 [12]
3. Pz.Gren.Div. / 31 / Apr 44 [7]
4. Pz.Div. / 21 / Jun 44 [12] (remaining Jgdpz. IV handed over to 12. Pz.Div. about 19.01.45)
5. Pz.Div. / 42 / Jun + Jul 44 [25]
6. Pz.Div. / 21 / Jul + Aug 44 [10]
8. Pz.Div. / 21 / Sep 44 [12]
9. Pz.Div. / 33 / Jul + Sep 44 [6]
11. Pz.Div. / 41 / Aug + Nov 44 [14]
12. Pz.Div. / 21 / Jun 44 [15] (on hand 01.02.45 = 23 Jagdpz. IV, including those taken over from 4. Pz.Div.)
15. Pz.Gren.Div. / 37 / Mai + Aug 44 [19]
19. Pz.Div. / 21 / Jul + Aug 44 [21]
20. Pz.Div. / 42 / Jun + Sep 44 [19]
23. Pz.Div. / 21 / Oct 44 [14]
25. Pz.Div. / 28 / Aug 44 [21]
26. Pz.Div. / ? / summer 44 [8] (no direct allocation from HZA; unknown number taken over from von III./Pz.Rgt. HG probably in July/Aug 44)
116. Pz.Div. / 29 / Jul + Sep 44 [9]
Pz.Lehr-Div. / 31 / Mar 44 [0]
Fallsch.Pz.Div. 'HG' / 52 / Apr + Jul 44 [18] (former III./Pz.Rgt. 'HG' became Korps-Pz.Jg.Abt. Fallsch.Pz.K. 'HG' in Oct 44)
3. Kav.Brig. / ? / Oct or Nov 44 [12] (no direct shipment from HZA can be traced in the allocation files)
4. Kav.Brig. / ? / currently unknown [4] (no direct shipment from HZA can be traced in the allocation files!)
3. SS-Pz.Div. 'T' / 21 / Sep 44 [17]
4. SS-Polizei-Pz.Gren.Div. / 31 / Okt 44 [12?] sources are a little unclear here, so this number should be treated with care!
5. SS-Pz.Div. 'W' / 21 / Jul 44 [13]
9. SS-Pz.Div. 'H' / 21 / Jul 44 [1]
10. SS-Pz.Div. 'F' / 21 / Aug 44 [12]
12. SS-Pz.Div. 'HJ' / 21 /Apr + Jun 44 [0]
17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. 'GvB' / 31 / Jun 44 [2]

Sources:
BA/MA RH 10/352 Artl.- u. Pak(Sf.)-Lage 30.12.44
BA/MA RH 10/349 and 350 Zuteilung der Panzerfahrzeuge
Spielberger/Doyle/Jentz, Leichte Jagdpanzer
various divisional histories

Hope I did not forget anything. Comments, corrections and additions are always welcome

Martin


This adds all the Heer allocations and pretty much confirms Dave's info.

PH
Paul

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seele02
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Post by seele02 » 25 Apr 2004 20:56

Thanks much guys!
Paul , do you know WHEN the L70 were sent to the SS-Units?
DOes anyone know which of the L48 of the SS-Units DIDNT have zimmerit?

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cbo
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Post by cbo » 25 Apr 2004 23:12

seele02 wrote:Thanks much guys!
Paul , do you know WHEN the L70 were sent to the SS-Units?
DOes anyone know which of the L48 of the SS-Units DIDNT have zimmerit?
The order to cease using Zimmerit went out in the beginning of September 1944 and the las Jagdpanzer IV (i.e. the 7,5cm L/48 armed vehicles) were made November 1944. So probably you would be looking at vehicles issued September 1944 or later for those without Zimmerit.

Claus B

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Panzer IV/70(V)

Post by Paul Hanson » 25 Apr 2004 23:17

I saw your question but forgot to look under Panzer IV/70(V) allocations where I have a post from Ron Klages at M-L and who also posts here:


Here are the dates and units for allocations



Pz.Abt. 2105 4September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 105
II./Pz.Rgt. GD 8September1944 11 Panzer Brigade "F-B"
Pz.Abt. 2107 11September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 107
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 228 ?September1944 116. Panzer Division
Pz.Abt."F-G" ?September1944 11 Panzer Brigade "F-G"
Pz.Abt. 2106 ?September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 106
Pz.Abt. 2108 ?September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 108
Pz.Abt. 2109 ?September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 109
Pz.Abt. 2110 ?September1944 11 Panzer Brigade 110
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 560 6October1944 6 Heeres Truppen
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 1 20October1944 21 1. SS Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 12 21October1944 21 12. SS Panzer Division
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 560 25October1944 7 Heeres Truppen
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 40 ?October 1944 10 24. Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 9 9November1944 21 9. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.LehrAbt. 130 13November1944 21 Panzer Lehr Division
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 560 14November1944 15 Heeres Truppen
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 2 18November1944 20 2. SS Panzer Division
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 655 25November1944 28 Heeres Truppen
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 50 28November1944 4 9. Panzer Division
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 560 2December1944 3 Heeres Truppen
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 2 3December1944 3 2. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 3 4December1944 17 3. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 519 4December1944 9 Heeres Truppen
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 559 7December1944 16 Heeres Truppen
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 655 7December1944 3 Heeres Truppen
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 10 9December1944 3 10. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 228 9December1944 6 116. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 228 14December1944 5 116. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 50 14December 1944 10 9. Panzer Division
sPz.Jgd.Abt. 559 14December1944 2 Heeres Truppen
Pz.Jgd.LehrAbt. 130 14December1944 11 Panzer Lehr Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 10 15December1944 7 10. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 33 21December1944 5 15. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 25 26December1944 11 25. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Abt. 115 26December1944 11 25. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 200 27December1944 17 21. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 13 ?December1944 21 13. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 27 ?December1944 21 17. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 40 ?December1944 19 24. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 42 ?December1944 21 7. Panzer Division
II./Pz.Rgt. 9 15January1945 26 Panzer Brigade 103
Pz.Abt. 7 ?January1945 10 10. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 563 ?January 1945 31 Heeres Truppen
Pz.Jgd.Abt. "GD" ?January 1945 21 Pz.Gren. Division "GD"
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 200 7February1945 6 21. Panzer Division
II./Pz.Rgt. 39 8February1945 28 17. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 42 8February1945 17 7. Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 2 17February1945 8 2. SS Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 1 18February1945 11 1. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Rgt. 2 18February1945 10 16. Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 9 18February1945 12 9. SS Panzer Division
I./Pz.Rgt. 9 21February1945 10 25. Panzer Division
Pz.Abt. 303 21February1945 10 Panzer Division"Schlesien"
Pz.Abt. 7 22February1945 10 10. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Abt. 8 26February1945 20 20. Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 510 ?February1945 10 Heeres Truppen
Pz.Abt. "Jüterborg" ?February1945 10 PD "Jüterborg"
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 12 ?February1945 21 12. SS Panzer Division
Pz.Verst.Abt. 303 ?February1945 10Infantry Division "Döberitz"
I./Pz.Rgt. 9 2March1945 10 25. Panzer Division
2./Pz.Jgd.Abt. 43 5March1945 10 8. Panzer Division
Pz.Jgd.Abt. 13 21March1945 8 13. Panzer Division
SS Pz.Jgd.Abt. 11 ?March1945 10 11. SS Pz.Gren. Division
Pz.Rgt. 21 ?March1945 10 20. Panzer Division
Pz.Abt. 2106 14April1945 10 Panzer Division "Clausewitz"
II./Pz.Rgt. 33 17April1945 10 9. Panzer Division
Pz.Abt. "Putlos" 17April1945 4 Panzer Division "Clausewitz"
- 24April1945 4 Panzer Division FHH
- ?April1945 18 18. Pz.Gren. Division


Hope this helps,
Ron Klages

Just for anyone who's interested I included all units being issued Panzer IV/70(V)'s.

Again, thanks to Ron for this list.

PH
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Paul Hanson
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Jagdpanzer IV w/o Zimmerit

Post by Paul Hanson » 25 Apr 2004 23:26

The order to discontinue zimmerit was issued in September, 1944; so the only W-SS unit to receive any Jagdpanzer IV L48 after that date was 4. SS-Polizei-Pz.Gren. Div.

PH
Paul

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Dan Reinbold
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Post by Dan Reinbold » 26 Apr 2004 05:55

Great info Paul! Thanks for sharing this.

I was looking for info on 2.SS and you just saved me a bunch of work!

Thanks again...Dan

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seele02
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Post by seele02 » 26 Apr 2004 05:58

Thanks alot Paul!
Do you think its also possible that Totenkopf received L48 without Zimmerit? (Im asking beacause after your list they received them in september)

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