Panther Rims

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Panther Rims

#1

Post by David C. Clarke » 19 Aug 2002, 18:02

Hey guys, as long as I can remember I've heard of the problem with Panther roadwheel rims. At oone time they had x amount of bolts, but they'd fail, so y number of bolts
was substituted and finally, steel wheels were considered.

Now it occurs to me that I have never consciously seen a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel. Have any of you? What happens, does the wheel fold up or does it simply lose the rubber tyre? Just curious since it is supposed to be such a well-known phenomenon. Cheers, DCC

User avatar
Dan W.
Member
Posts: 8518
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 02:53
Location: IL.

#2

Post by Dan W. » 19 Aug 2002, 21:53

On the other side of this Panther is a slot for spare road wheeels. There was enough room to hold 2 spare road wheels of the rubber variety.
Not sure what would happen in the event of failure
Attachments
101-0163_img.jpg
101-0163_img.jpg (153.41 KiB) Viewed 3836 times


User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Hey D.W.

#3

Post by David C. Clarke » 19 Aug 2002, 22:21

Hey D.W., is that the Aberdeen Panther? I've seen pictures of Panthers carrying spare roadwheels, especially late in the war. Usually they would be carried on the turret side or rear side of the hull where the extra track links are usually stowed. Talk to you soon. Best Regards, David :D

User avatar
Aufklarung
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:27
Location: Canada

#4

Post by Aufklarung » 19 Aug 2002, 23:52

Dan Weakley wrote: Not sure what would happen in the event of failure


Generally speaking, when a tank road wheel fails the rubber "tyre" around the rim peels off and separates. This causes the suspension to then push the bare metal of the road wheel onto the track proper and slowly destroy itself and to some degree the track. I'm not sure about the panther but the bolts hold the two halves of a road wheel together clasping the frame for the rubber portion. Turning on tank tracks cause lateral stresses on them and they let go. This is still a problem today and changing road wheels is not fun. :lol: It really all depends on who makes them. the wartime industry of Germany probably had a hard time of effectively shrinking and adhering the rubber to the wheel. Also rubber was scarce anyway and lots of tanks had steel road wheels. ie T 34. This led to increased track wear! So a mean circle.:lol:

User avatar
Christian Ankerstjerne
Forum Staff
Posts: 14028
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
Location: Denmark
Contact:

#5

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 20 Aug 2002, 00:25

A combination, such as on the Panzer IV/70 with steel in the front and rubber in the rear was also a solution...

Christian

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Hi Guys!

#6

Post by David C. Clarke » 20 Aug 2002, 01:19

Hi Christian, I've seen photos of Panthers with steel roadwheels only on the last roadwheel station. These were in one of the AJ Press (from Poland) "Panther" books.

Hi Aufklarung, thanks, I think that gives us a good explanation of the problem. Also, as I recall, Germany was forced to rely on synthetic rubber during the war, so there's no telling what characteristics that material had. Interesting that the Russians continued with all-steel roadwheels on the JS-2, but switched back to rubber-tyred roadwheels for the T-34/85 once their supply of rubber increased. I recall that the Russians discovered that with the T-34, if all roadwheels were steel, an unacceptable vibration affected the tank.

But Guys, I'm still looking for a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel!!
Best Regards, David :D

User avatar
Dan W.
Member
Posts: 8518
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 02:53
Location: IL.

#7

Post by Dan W. » 20 Aug 2002, 01:55

Here is a good picture of the rubber on the road wheels of the
T-34/85. Sorry, no failed Panther road wheels. :oops:
Attachments
101-0170_img.jpg
101-0170_img.jpg (89.17 KiB) Viewed 3781 times

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Thanks D.W.

#8

Post by David C. Clarke » 20 Aug 2002, 02:43

Thanks D.W., another great picture. The rubber on both these vehicles is remarkably well preserved. But you still didn't say which museum. My bet goes to Aberdeen Proving Grounds. Best Regards, David :D

User avatar
Aufklarung
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:27
Location: Canada

#9

Post by Aufklarung » 20 Aug 2002, 02:52

Sorry David, the only ones I have are onprints and are battle damage. Give me a few days and I could give you shots of current armour road wheel failure with lengthy drivel about the particulars of that failure. :lol:
Christian, I think the Jpz IV/L70 had only one steel wheel on the front bogie, two on the next and the rest were rubbered. This was to account for the weight of that overhanging monster of a gun. (The French used this gun after the war.) It so altered the C of G for the Pz IV chassis, any bump or step to the front of the vehicle would jar clear through hull and knock the crews fillings :lol:
Here's a sample of mixed track on a T34/76 '43. I think it was for economy purposes that they did so and yes, all steel would have sterilized the crew through vibration. 8O
Attachments
rdwhls.jpg
Greatest AFV suspension ever. Thank you Mister Christie!
rdwhls.jpg (37.63 KiB) Viewed 3751 times

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Thanks

#10

Post by David C. Clarke » 20 Aug 2002, 02:59

Thanks Aufklarung! This is an enjoyable discussion. Oh yes, the Chrisite suspension was okay, but 35 tons was about its limit. The heavy Russian tank, from JS-II on used the torison bar.
But Aufklarung, now I'm curious, what tank did you crew or are most familiar with? Best Regards, David :D

User avatar
Aufklarung
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:27
Location: Canada

#11

Post by Aufklarung » 20 Aug 2002, 03:44

Although I am a "Armoured Crewman" by trade; I am not particularly fond of our MBTs. We use the Leopard C2 which is a Leo 1A3 Turret upgraded. on our old 1A4(C1) hulls. They are fairly state of the art and are quite capable vehicle for it's age. I have spend most of my time in M113 1/2 Lynx C&RV, GM AVGP Cougar, Bison and Coyote LAVs. Although a had to spend required time in tanks to advance, my first and only love has been close armd recce in whatever vehicle I had. :D

Any time in the service at your end?
Regards
A

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
Location: U.S. of A.

I See

#12

Post by David C. Clarke » 20 Aug 2002, 04:36

No Time in the service on my end Aufklarung. There was a bit of a tif in Vietnam when I came of age. Went to college from 1969-1973. Armor
is only a hobby with me, although its been one for about 20 years. I dabble in WWII, Korea and Vietnam mostly. Best Regards, David :D
(P.S. I always liked the Mowag family, maybe we'll have a tlak about LAVs some day.)

User avatar
Aufklarung
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:27
Location: Canada

#13

Post by Aufklarung » 20 Aug 2002, 04:44

Any time, David. By the way, MOWAG is owned now by GM Defence in London Ontario.

User avatar
Christian Ankerstjerne
Forum Staff
Posts: 14028
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
Location: Denmark
Contact:

#14

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 20 Aug 2002, 17:43

try russianbattlefield.ru for pics of where the rubber is driven off. I can imagine the Germans were not too exited of seing pics of their own tanks failing, so the Russians get credit for most of these pics...

Christian

User avatar
admfisher
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 30 Mar 2002, 02:38
Location: Toronto
Contact:

roadwheels

#15

Post by admfisher » 20 Aug 2002, 22:10

The panthers forward roadwheels lost there rubber on the outter rim due to the fact that they were wearing against the track link.

They sat inside the track link, the russians kept there roadwheels generally outside the track link.
The germans new of the problem and as mentioned they got over part of it by using metal wheels, but this did not stop the wearing.

Post Reply

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”