Panther Rims
- David C. Clarke
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Panther Rims
Hey guys, as long as I can remember I've heard of the problem with Panther roadwheel rims. At oone time they had x amount of bolts, but they'd fail, so y number of bolts
was substituted and finally, steel wheels were considered.
Now it occurs to me that I have never consciously seen a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel. Have any of you? What happens, does the wheel fold up or does it simply lose the rubber tyre? Just curious since it is supposed to be such a well-known phenomenon. Cheers, DCC
was substituted and finally, steel wheels were considered.
Now it occurs to me that I have never consciously seen a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel. Have any of you? What happens, does the wheel fold up or does it simply lose the rubber tyre? Just curious since it is supposed to be such a well-known phenomenon. Cheers, DCC
- David C. Clarke
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Hey D.W.
Hey D.W., is that the Aberdeen Panther? I've seen pictures of Panthers carrying spare roadwheels, especially late in the war. Usually they would be carried on the turret side or rear side of the hull where the extra track links are usually stowed. Talk to you soon. Best Regards, David
- Aufklarung
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Dan Weakley wrote: Not sure what would happen in the event of failure
Generally speaking, when a tank road wheel fails the rubber "tyre" around the rim peels off and separates. This causes the suspension to then push the bare metal of the road wheel onto the track proper and slowly destroy itself and to some degree the track. I'm not sure about the panther but the bolts hold the two halves of a road wheel together clasping the frame for the rubber portion. Turning on tank tracks cause lateral stresses on them and they let go. This is still a problem today and changing road wheels is not fun. It really all depends on who makes them. the wartime industry of Germany probably had a hard time of effectively shrinking and adhering the rubber to the wheel. Also rubber was scarce anyway and lots of tanks had steel road wheels. ie T 34. This led to increased track wear! So a mean circle.
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- David C. Clarke
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Hi Guys!
Hi Christian, I've seen photos of Panthers with steel roadwheels only on the last roadwheel station. These were in one of the AJ Press (from Poland) "Panther" books.
Hi Aufklarung, thanks, I think that gives us a good explanation of the problem. Also, as I recall, Germany was forced to rely on synthetic rubber during the war, so there's no telling what characteristics that material had. Interesting that the Russians continued with all-steel roadwheels on the JS-2, but switched back to rubber-tyred roadwheels for the T-34/85 once their supply of rubber increased. I recall that the Russians discovered that with the T-34, if all roadwheels were steel, an unacceptable vibration affected the tank.
But Guys, I'm still looking for a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel!!
Best Regards, David
Hi Aufklarung, thanks, I think that gives us a good explanation of the problem. Also, as I recall, Germany was forced to rely on synthetic rubber during the war, so there's no telling what characteristics that material had. Interesting that the Russians continued with all-steel roadwheels on the JS-2, but switched back to rubber-tyred roadwheels for the T-34/85 once their supply of rubber increased. I recall that the Russians discovered that with the T-34, if all roadwheels were steel, an unacceptable vibration affected the tank.
But Guys, I'm still looking for a picture of a failed Panther roadwheel!!
Best Regards, David
- David C. Clarke
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Thanks D.W.
Thanks D.W., another great picture. The rubber on both these vehicles is remarkably well preserved. But you still didn't say which museum. My bet goes to Aberdeen Proving Grounds. Best Regards, David
- Aufklarung
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Sorry David, the only ones I have are onprints and are battle damage. Give me a few days and I could give you shots of current armour road wheel failure with lengthy drivel about the particulars of that failure.
Christian, I think the Jpz IV/L70 had only one steel wheel on the front bogie, two on the next and the rest were rubbered. This was to account for the weight of that overhanging monster of a gun. (The French used this gun after the war.) It so altered the C of G for the Pz IV chassis, any bump or step to the front of the vehicle would jar clear through hull and knock the crews fillings
Here's a sample of mixed track on a T34/76 '43. I think it was for economy purposes that they did so and yes, all steel would have sterilized the crew through vibration.
Christian, I think the Jpz IV/L70 had only one steel wheel on the front bogie, two on the next and the rest were rubbered. This was to account for the weight of that overhanging monster of a gun. (The French used this gun after the war.) It so altered the C of G for the Pz IV chassis, any bump or step to the front of the vehicle would jar clear through hull and knock the crews fillings
Here's a sample of mixed track on a T34/76 '43. I think it was for economy purposes that they did so and yes, all steel would have sterilized the crew through vibration.
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- David C. Clarke
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Thanks
Thanks Aufklarung! This is an enjoyable discussion. Oh yes, the Chrisite suspension was okay, but 35 tons was about its limit. The heavy Russian tank, from JS-II on used the torison bar.
But Aufklarung, now I'm curious, what tank did you crew or are most familiar with? Best Regards, David
But Aufklarung, now I'm curious, what tank did you crew or are most familiar with? Best Regards, David
- Aufklarung
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Although I am a "Armoured Crewman" by trade; I am not particularly fond of our MBTs. We use the Leopard C2 which is a Leo 1A3 Turret upgraded. on our old 1A4(C1) hulls. They are fairly state of the art and are quite capable vehicle for it's age. I have spend most of my time in M113 1/2 Lynx C&RV, GM AVGP Cougar, Bison and Coyote LAVs. Although a had to spend required time in tanks to advance, my first and only love has been close armd recce in whatever vehicle I had.
Any time in the service at your end?
Regards
A
Any time in the service at your end?
Regards
A
- David C. Clarke
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I See
No Time in the service on my end Aufklarung. There was a bit of a tif in Vietnam when I came of age. Went to college from 1969-1973. Armor
is only a hobby with me, although its been one for about 20 years. I dabble in WWII, Korea and Vietnam mostly. Best Regards, David
(P.S. I always liked the Mowag family, maybe we'll have a tlak about LAVs some day.)
is only a hobby with me, although its been one for about 20 years. I dabble in WWII, Korea and Vietnam mostly. Best Regards, David
(P.S. I always liked the Mowag family, maybe we'll have a tlak about LAVs some day.)
- Aufklarung
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- Christian Ankerstjerne
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roadwheels
The panthers forward roadwheels lost there rubber on the outter rim due to the fact that they were wearing against the track link.
They sat inside the track link, the russians kept there roadwheels generally outside the track link.
The germans new of the problem and as mentioned they got over part of it by using metal wheels, but this did not stop the wearing.
They sat inside the track link, the russians kept there roadwheels generally outside the track link.
The germans new of the problem and as mentioned they got over part of it by using metal wheels, but this did not stop the wearing.