Vehicle identity requests

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
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SIS 5
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10891

Post by SIS 5 » 06 Dec 2019, 11:45

Hi Jose,

the trucks with a strange body/tarpaulin are normal personnel carriers of the German police in this time. Here a pic of a Mercedes-Benz type L 2500.

Best regards

Bert
Attachments
MB L 2500.png
MB L 2500.png (458.18 KiB) Viewed 2116 times

Jose85
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10892

Post by Jose85 » 06 Dec 2019, 13:09

Hi,
Thanks Kerry and Bert!


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uncle
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10893

Post by uncle » 06 Dec 2019, 15:54

Hi Jose,
Mercedes bus...
Attachments
Mercedes bus .jpg

Jose85
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10894

Post by Jose85 » 07 Dec 2019, 14:05

Hi uncle,
Thanks for the photo! Clearly similarities in design...

SIS 5
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10895

Post by SIS 5 » 07 Dec 2019, 20:29

Hi Jose, hi uncle,

sorry, uncle, but today I don´t agree with You. I think it is a Büssing-NAG type 350 - O. Here three pics of this bus out of the book "Der Autobahn-Schnellverkehr der Deutschen Reichsbahn" by Volkhard Stern.

Best regards

Bert
Attachments
BN 350 - O  -  1.png
BN 350 - O - 1.png (190.45 KiB) Viewed 2017 times
BN 350 - O  -  2.png
BN 350 - O - 2.png (209.35 KiB) Viewed 2017 times
BN 350 - O  -  3.png
BN 350 - O - 3.png (185.84 KiB) Viewed 2017 times

Jose85
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10896

Post by Jose85 » 07 Dec 2019, 22:24

Maybe same coachbuilder?

SIS 5
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10897

Post by SIS 5 » 08 Dec 2019, 02:14

Hi Jose,

maybe You are right. The coachbuilder of the Büssing-NAG bus was Gaubschat in Berlin. Here a pic of a Mercedes-Benz type Lo 2600 with a Gaubschat superstructure.

Best regards

Bert
Attachments
MB  Lo 2600.png
MB Lo 2600.png (102.14 KiB) Viewed 1991 times

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10898

Post by Maxschnauzer » 08 Dec 2019, 04:11

Hi guys,
Very interesting thread. Apparently that particular style was quite popular with the Deutsche Reichsbahn around 1936: The photo below is described in Piet van Hees' Opel Blitz site http://www.pietvanhees.nl/blitzbus/ as follows:
2 Wehrmacht soldiers posing before a magnificently lined bus, note the low headlights. Martin Korth identified it as a Mercedes Lo 2600 with a Kässbohrer Bodywork. There where build six of it in 1936 for the Reichsbahn Schnellverkehr. (seen in the book "Der Autobahn-Schnellverkehr")
Attachments
blitzbus56_lf_wh-possing.jpg
http://www.pietvanhees.nl/blitzbus/
Cheers,
Max

ilfil
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10899

Post by ilfil » 08 Dec 2019, 22:07

SIS 5 wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 20:29
Hi Jose, hi uncle,

sorry, uncle, but today I don´t agree with You. I think it is a Büssing-NAG type 350 - O. Here three pics of this bus out of the book "Der Autobahn-Schnellverkehr der Deutschen Reichsbahn" by Volkhard Stern.

Best regards

Bert
Hi Bert,
In turn I cannot agree with you, i.e. with Volkhard Stern. On all pictures you've posted from the book the bus looks exactly like Mercedes bodied by Kässbohrer. AFAIK the streamlined Büssing buses ordered by DR are bodied by Westwaggon. And they look a bit different:

Image

Image

Cheers!
"...and on the 8th day He made truck so that man, made on 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night."

ilfil
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10900

Post by ilfil » 09 Dec 2019, 16:51

Was ist das, bitte?

Image

Not the aircraft, of course, but the truck on the right. The shape of what's visible from this refueller is somewhat unusual. Definitely not the standard for Luftwaffe Mercedes LG 3000 or Opel Blitz refuellers. Something captured, perhaps?
(pic fm Flugzeug Classic 2020-01)
TIA.
Cheers!
"...and on the 8th day He made truck so that man, made on 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night."

SIS 5
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10901

Post by SIS 5 » 10 Dec 2019, 18:26

Hi ilfil,

thank You very much for Your critical reply. Now I´m totally uncertain, what is right and what is wrong. And I´m really confused.
First to the coachbuilders: there were four for Büssing-NAG and two for Mercedes-Benz:
for Büssing-NAG: Westwaggon - Recklinghausen - Gaubschat - Büssing in Elbing
for Mercedes-Benz: Gaubschat - Kässbohrer
You are right, on both pics You posted are Büssing-NAG type 350 - O made by Westwaggon. Here two pics of the fourth coachbuilder for Büssing-NAG "Recklinghausen", clearly distiguishable like Westwaggon. But what is with Gaubschat and Büssing?
Here the pic of the Mercedes-Benz Lo 2600 made by Kässbohrer.

Best regards

Bert
Attachments
BN 350-O Recklingahusen - 1.png
BN 350-O Recklingahusen - 1.png (283.08 KiB) Viewed 1837 times
BN 350-O Recklingahusen - 2.png
BN 350-O Recklingahusen - 2.png (125.54 KiB) Viewed 1837 times
MB Lo 2600 Kässbohrer.png
MB Lo 2600 Kässbohrer.png (160.68 KiB) Viewed 1837 times

SIS 5
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10902

Post by SIS 5 » 10 Dec 2019, 18:46

Hi ilfil,

in the book "Der Autobahn-Schnellverkehr der Deutschen Reichsbahn" by Volkhard Sturm there is a list of all registration numbers of these Reichsbahn busses. That is the solution of our questions:
DR 90 101: Büssing-NAG Gaubschat
DR 90 140: Büssing-NAG Gaubschat
DR 90 134: Mercedes-Benz Gaubschat
DR 90 146: Mercedes-Benz Kässbohrer
DR 90 051: Büssing-NAG Westwaggom
DR 90 056: Büssing-NAG Westwaggon

Best regards

Bert

ilfil
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10903

Post by ilfil » 10 Dec 2019, 23:28

Hi Bert,
I'm afraid I started to sound like an echo but I must say "thank you" in turn.
Live and learn... Maybe my source is a bit rotten. Thanks for the info and for the pics in particular. I've never seen before Reichsbahn vehicle with number plates other than "DR-...." (those "Im Auftrage der Reichsbahn" not in count). And I wonder is it possible your buses are also private vehicles on loan? Is there something on this in the book?
SIS 5 wrote:
10 Dec 2019, 18:26
First to the coachbuilders: there were four for Büssing-NAG and two for Mercedes-Benz:
for Büssing-NAG: Westwaggon - Recklinghausen - Gaubschat - Büssing in Elbing
for Mercedes-Benz: Gaubschat - Kässbohrer
If you have had in mind streamlined buses only, that would be okay, I guess. But for the bus coachbuilders these manufacturers used to work with in general, you must add Komnick for Büssing and Gaggenau for D-B as a minimum.

In general my point is that German period bus recognition is and always was dangerous field full of landmines.
Just to confirm this, let's return to the start of this talk.
I think the question still remains: what is on this picture?

Image

Externally it is the same like DR-90140 and DR-90134 posted by you above (vent openings on the bonnet sides are curved in front, same front roof details, same body trim, etc.). The problem is that there is “Büssing” in the file name of the first pic and “Mercedes” in the file name of the second, and externally they are exactly the same. The same confusion is in the list from the book also, if it is confusion at all. Although the chances for exactly the same body by the same coachbuilder on two different chassis are really negligible, normally they must be with different body trim as a minimum.

Image

I wrote "externally" because internally they definitely aren't the same, in the front part at least. Have you noted that for even more fun our unknown beauty is also RHD? And the negative wasn't flipped because the number plate and the "WH" marking are okay.
BTW, yet another confirmation of the Murphy's laws. There is always an idiot(s) who stands in front of the details vital for ID. Apparently I mean the left fat idiot who managed to obscure nicely the number plate.

Cheers!
Last edited by ilfil on 11 Dec 2019, 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
"...and on the 8th day He made truck so that man, made on 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night."

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uncle
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10904

Post by uncle » 11 Dec 2019, 12:42

ilfil wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 16:51
Was ist das, bitte?

Not the aircraft, of course, but the truck on the right. The shape of what's visible from this refueller is somewhat unusual. Definitely not the standard for Luftwaffe Mercedes LG 3000 or Opel Blitz refuellers. Something captured, perhaps?
(pic fm Flugzeug Classic 2020-01)
TIA.
Cheers!
Hi ilfil,
Possibly Latil...
Attachments
Latil.jpg

ilfil
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Re: Vehicle identity requests

#10905

Post by ilfil » 11 Dec 2019, 19:57

Thanks uncle,
Looks like you've nailed it.
Cheers!
"...and on the 8th day He made truck so that man, made on 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night."

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