Jagd Panther Actions

david Cotton · Post by **david Cotton** » 13 Apr 2005 12:25

Hello all,
Whe I read about the Jagd panther, I hear that it was a very good tank destroyer and in general a worthwhile convertion of the panther.
However, less than 400 were made and I cannot seem to find many reports of Jagd Panther actions.

I have read a little about the churchhills that were mauled by 3 Jagd Panthers in Normandy. Seems around 10 Churchhills were knocked oot for the loss of 2 Jagd Panthers.

Does anyone else have some Jagd Panther action reports or links to any or more details on the Normandy action i mentioned above.

I am interested to see if the reports back up the reputation that referance books give it.

Regards
David

hchris · Post by **hchris** » 13 Apr 2005 12:56

I am also very interested in those reports! It would be really nice if somebody could post some!

Jan-Hendrik · Post by **Jan-Hendrik** » 13 Apr 2005 14:24

Well known is the raid of KGr. Nicolussi-Leck ( fromm SS-Div. Wiking ) from Hannover to Hohne in April 1945 . They fought threy times agains US tanks and won three times . But I have only reports about this raid in german language . Who is interested may watch here :

http://panzer-archiv.marcof.de/forum/vi ... php?t=1402

Jan-Hendrik

Ace31 · Post by **Ace31** » 13 Apr 2005 16:10

Very very interesting link Jan-Hendrik, it's useful even if in German...

Christian W. · Post by **Christian W.** » 13 Apr 2005 19:57

However, less than 400 were made

Actually, over 400 were produced.

Panther variants book by Jentz and Doyle states that 413 Jagdpanthers were produced.

david Cotton · Post by **david Cotton** » 13 Apr 2005 22:55

Hi
German Heavy Tanks by Peter Chaberlain and Chris Ellis, gives Jagdpanther production as 382 at wars end. Not sure which is accurate, but we are looking at approximatly 400.( whats a 30 Jagd Panthers between friends)

Around 400 aint many when you think of its reputation. Maybe it is more well known today, because model manufacturers usualy produce a Jagd Panther kit or die cast if they already produce a Panther.

Regards
David

cbo · Post by **cbo** » 14 Apr 2005 11:08

david Cotton wrote:Hello all,
Whe I read about the Jagd panther, I hear that it was a very good tank destroyer and in general a worthwhile convertion of the panther.
However, less than 400 were made and I cannot seem to find many reports of Jagd Panther actions.

I have read a little about the churchhills that were mauled by 3 Jagd Panthers in Normandy. Seems around 10 Churchhills were knocked oot for the loss of 2 Jagd Panthers.

Does anyone else have some Jagd Panther action reports or links to any or more details on the Normandy action i mentioned above.

I am interested to see if the reports back up the reputation that referance books give it.

Generally, I think the Jagdpanthers reputation has a lot more to do with its basic design features than any actual combat succes. Looking at the design as such, it evidently had excellent mobility, decent amount of engine power, a good compromise in terms of armour, a very powerfull gun etc. And it does of course look the part...!

However, given that the bulk of Jagdpanthers were made in late 1944 and 1945 and often distributed in small numbers to all sorts of odd units, it is hardly surprising that they often ended up broken down, out of gas or stuck, out of touch with the supply and repair facilities of their parent formations. Also, there are accounts of gross mismanagement of the Jagdpanthers, being deployed in small numbers in fixed positions where they were easily overwhelmed, outmanouvered and lost.

Spielbergers book "Schwere Jagdpanzer" have various combat accounts and reports on the Jagdpanthers which seems to confirm this. I think the figures have been posted here before, but s.PzJgAbt 563 made a report in February 1945 about the raising of the battalion and its first days in combat. Basically, they were lacking everything, particularily support vehicles, the troops assigned to the battalion came from many different units, some of them directly from destroyed units at the front and training was limited to non-existant. The battalion was equipped with a mix of Jagdpanzer IVs and Jagdpanthers. The battalion claimed 58 enemy tanks destroyed for the loss of 1 Jagdpanther and 4 Jagpanzer IV but lost an additional 12 Jagdpanther and 17 Jagdpanzer IV to lack of fuel, getting stuck and long term repair - all were blown up to prevent them falling into enemy hands.
The battalion was dissolved a few days later and one company from s.PzJgAbt 616 which had been attached was assigned to an infantry division with the remaining 9 Jagdpanthers.

The primary mechanical problem with the Jagdpanther appears to have been due to its noose-heavyness. The early versions used the standard Panther final drive which broke apart very easily but an improved version started to arrive in October 1944. Still, it says something that the new item was considered a succes because it lasted at least 400-500 km....... And still, the front sprockets continued to wear out rapidly.

Anyone have Munchs book on s.PzJgAbt 654? They opereated Jagdpanthers after they had handed in their Ferdinands in 1944 and IIRC they were the first unit in combat and fought in Normandy.

Claus B

david Cotton · Post by **david Cotton** » 14 Apr 2005 12:14

Hi,
I have looked up "Schwere Jagdpanzer" on Amazon.com. Unfortunatly it says the text is in German. I will have to wait and hope for an English version to come out (or learn me some German).

Regards
David

AikinutNY · Post by **AikinutNY** » 14 Apr 2005 20:14

David, I will look thru my copy when I get home this weekend and let you know what I can find. I just got the book and have been researching the Ferdinands.

David C. Clarke · Post by **David C. Clarke** » 15 Apr 2005 02:28

David, the good folks of the forum have translated a couple of the reports in Speiberger's Schwere Jagdpanzers :

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72337

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=74560

Enjoy.

Best Regards,
~Commissar D, the EviL

david Cotton · Post by **david Cotton** » 15 Apr 2005 12:26

Hello all
Thanks Daid and AikinutNY.

The Translated links were great reading, my thanks to the members who took the time to do this work, it is very much appritiated. Thank you.

I never realised that only 2 units of Jagd Panthers were used on the eastern front. This would be less than 100 of the 400 built.

I have read that only a few JP were used in Normandy. Were they used anyware in numbers or were they simply committed in ones and twos as infantry support ?

Its shocking to read how many JP were lost simply to fuel shortage. However, I cannot see what you could do once you ran out of fuel supplies.

Regards
David

David C. Clarke · Post by **David C. Clarke** » 16 Apr 2005 01:03

I never realised that only 2 units of Jagd Panthers were used on the eastern front. This would be less than 100 of the 400 built.

Hi David, way back in 2000, I noted this odd fact and posed a question about it on Feldgrau. Ron Klages was kind enough to reply and, according to his calculations, he believed at that time that only 85 Jagdpanthers went to units on the Eastern Front.
There is no ready explanation for this fact.

As to your original question. The action in Normandy occurred on 30 July 1944 when the 15th Scottish Infantry Division, supported by 174 Churchill tanks of the 6th Guards Tank Brigade attacked an area controlled by the German 326th Infantry Division. The immediate British objective was Hill 309 just West of Bois Du Homme. Three Jagdpanthers of sJg.Pz. Abt. 654 engaged the 6th Guards and destroyed 14 Churchills. Two Jagdpanthers are abandoned with track damage, but the third escaped.

Best Regards,
David

grassi · Post by **grassi** » 09 May 2005 16:58

Hello,

there is a battle report in German language about a Jagdpanther at the Eastern front in:

Schäufler, Hans/ Tieke, Wilhelm,
Das Ende zwischen Weichsel und Elbe 1944/45, Spezialausgabe Stuttgart 2003 [=Motorbuchverlag; ISBN 3-613-02298-2], p. 46-52.

The engagement took place at the end of February 1945 (25th Feb. or later) south of Preussisch-Stargard. A single Jagdpanther destroyed 16 soviet tanks during several actions in only one noon.
The single Jagdpanther was carefully hidden in a village, behind a dung pile. The Jagdpanther had to leave the scene because it ran out of ammunition.
The Jagdpanther was commanded by Hermann Bix, Oberfeldwebel and platoon leader in I. Abteilung / Panzerregiment 35. At that time this unit was partly equipped with Panthers and Jagdpanthers.

grassi

david Cotton · Post by **david Cotton** » 27 Jul 2005 19:44

Hello all
I have just read a good piece of Jagd Panther action in the book "Panzer Aces" published by stackpole. The ace using the Jagd Panther was Hermann Bix and his freinds. The action is on the eastern front and demonstrates how effective a Jagd Panther could be in the hands of an experencied commander.

In this action he takes out 16 tanks by getting into the right place at the right time.

Regards
David

Michael Kenny · Post by **Michael Kenny** » 27 Jul 2005 20:44

This book was mentioned briefly earlier but it is the definitive book on this unit in Normandy.

It is the 5th book in the listing.

http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/unit_histories.htm

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Reports about Jadgpanther actions

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