Engineer Panzers? Snow Plows?

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
arctic fox
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Engineer Panzers? Snow Plows?

Post by arctic fox » 28 Feb 2006 12:20

I have been reading some American AARs from winter 1944-1945 and I notice how they used bulldozer tanks to plow roads and even create roads of their own. This made me think how I have seen only one or two pictures of German engineer tanks. Did Germans use engineer panzers (bulldozers, mine-clearers, bridge-layers) in any wider scale? How did they keep roads open during winter?

-AF

Aldert Louwe
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Re: Engineer Panzers? Snow Plows?

Post by Aldert Louwe » 28 Feb 2006 13:12

arctic fox wrote:I have been reading some American AARs from winter 1944-1945 and I notice how they used bulldozer tanks to plow roads and even create roads of their own. This made me think how I have seen only one or two pictures of German engineer tanks. Did Germans use engineer panzers (bulldozers, mine-clearers, bridge-layers) in any wider scale? How did they keep roads open during winter?

-AF


They had there engineer panzers also( think of the Bergepanzer 38, BergePanther and BergeTiger, bridge layers based on panzer I, III and Hanomag 251/i think it was version 8).
I have never seen :( one with snowplough but the ancor they used for towing could also be used as a plough with maybe a small adjustment?

arctic fox
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Post by arctic fox » 28 Feb 2006 13:50

Thanks!

I was able to find information from Google now that I got the correct German term. I will post about my findings (and more questions :) ) when I have read more.

-AF

arctic fox
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Post by arctic fox » 01 Mar 2006 00:43

Here's a list of different types of German engineer vehicles that I could find. Are there any errors? Is something missing? I didn't find any bulldozer or plow type vehicles.

Bergepanzer - Recovery panzer with a winch or crane.

Pionierkampfwagen - Carrier for combat engineers.

Pionierpanzerwagen - Carries combat engineers, their equipment and two light bridges.

Brückenleger - A bridge layer for heavier bridge parts.

Minenräumpanzer - Mine clearing panzer.

Minenräumwagen - Mine clearing vehicle.

Ladungsleger - Explosives carrier?

-AF

arctic fox
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Post by arctic fox » 01 Mar 2006 18:37

There was Schneeschaufel auf Bren (e): captured Bren Carriers with snow plows.

Image
Image source: http://beute.narod.ru

There must have been other snow plow vehicles, perhaps trucks. Does anyone know?

-AF

Patrice
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Post by Patrice » 01 Mar 2006 19:57

Hello, a Sd.Kfz 6 with used as snow plows.
From 'Halbkettenfahrzeuge Armour Series n°7.
Patrice.
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arctic fox
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Post by arctic fox » 03 Mar 2006 15:57

Thanks!

Halftrack would make a great snow plough and apparently it did.


There was a version of Büssing-NAG truck with snow plough:

Image

Source: http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/buessnag.htm


Some sites tell that there was a snow plough for RSO caterpillar. I also found some individual references for Pz.IV and VI with snow plough.


-AF

arctic fox
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Post by arctic fox » 05 Mar 2006 22:49

Jim provided me information (THANKS!) that lead me to this interesting page: http://www.panzermodellbau.com/index_at ... fel.html&1

This page contains a picture of Panther Ausf D mit Räumschaufel:

Image

If I understand German language of that page correctly, these kind of bulldozer panzers were used as parts of fire brigades that cleared rubble created by Allied air raids. Does it mean that these kind of panzers were not usually part of combat units?


I have been reading THE TIGER TRIUMPHS - THE STORY OF THREE GREAT DIVISIONS IN ITALY and it contains this passage that stresses the importance of Allied engineer vehicles:

Among a thousand devices, two were of such paramount importance as to make the difference between defeat and victory. Bulldozers, long the envy of commanders in the desert, multiplied their functions to meet a hundred emergencies. These great scoops and their crews became integral elements of every battlefield. Whatever the malice of the enemy or the whim of nature, if earth and stone could repair the damage the bulldozers speedily would open the way. A brigade of artillery or a heavy concentration of bombers might wreak fantastic destruction on a vital target. Yet in a matter of hours a half-dozen grimy drivers with chugging caterpillars would mend and make workable. The bulldozer was surgeon-on-the-spot to all wounded terrain.


Is anyone aware of German views on this subject? Did they recognize the efficiency of Allied bulldozers? Did Germans utilize bulldozer vehicles with same efficiency? Did German combat troops even have bulldozer vehicles?

-AF

Bill 13
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Post by Bill 13 » 22 May 2006 07:15

Day All
From the for what it's worth files.
Winter 43/44 Pic
As to having bulldozers I have seen one in german service albeit with the workers working on Festung Europa.
Also seen single bladed plows on truck fronts shifting snow.
Who makes these plows I don'nt know.
Bill
:roll:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/pzpflak/19.wmv until 25 May 2006 short clip(9sec675kb)
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FRANCY RITTER
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Post by FRANCY RITTER » 22 May 2006 08:45

Panther Ausf D mit Räumschaufel.


Image


Another pic :)

Sorry unknown source :(



Image

MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 22 May 2006 09:02

the Panther with the plow was only used in clearing street in probably Nuremberg
it was somwhere speculated that this Panther D was converted by MAN during an overhaul because there's no gun
some other tanks (a few P III and P IV, not the VI, writing error in the german text of the picture)
were also used with a plow, mainly used by fire brigades

as far as I know it there was no usage of such tanks in combat units
but as always with the german Wehrmacht, You learn every day something new about it...


MadderCat

john1761
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Post by john1761 » 22 May 2006 20:56

The germans also made a snow plow blade that attached to the front of Tiger 1. Can't find apicture yet. I think in one of Jentz's book on the Tiger had a photo of it.

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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 22 May 2006 21:25

john1761 wrote:The germans also made a snow plow blade that attached to the front of Tiger 1. Can't find apicture yet. I think in one of Jentz's book on the Tiger had a photo of it.


Jentz book on the Tiger tank does have a picture of a Tiger prototype VK 45.01(H) V1 with Vorpanzer (spaced armour) on the front hull. When extended the Vorpaner does look like a snowplow blade. Could this be the oictuer you are referring to?

-Bryson

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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 22 May 2006 21:27

Rats can't edit posts anymore

oictuer should be Picture


-Bryson

john1761
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Post by john1761 » 23 May 2006 01:45

No , that is not the one. probably another book I will have to check. I know Tank workshop used to make a tiger snowplow.

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