Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

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wartourist
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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 13 Nov 2012 20:57

Thanks Larry, I will be patient. One guy has been in quarantine for months, so patience seems to be the word ;-)

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby rtb98 » 24 Apr 2013 02:22

That it ? any news about your research ?

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby Larry D. » 24 Apr 2013 12:41

The research findings can be found on the 12 O'Clock High Luftwaffe Discussion web site. I do not believe they were conclusive, although several suggestions were made.

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 25 May 2013 21:40

Sorry guys for not being active for a while.

Sadly, I have not been able to get any nearer to the pilots identity that the illusive "Feldwebel B". In all likelihood, the guy did not survive the war?

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby Larry D. » 25 May 2013 22:48

wartourist wrote:Sorry guys for not being active for a while.

Sadly, I have not been able to get any nearer to the pilots identity that the illusive "Feldwebel B". In all likelihood, the guy did not survive the war?

Dan


That's what it's starting to sound like. If he had survived, he would have said something or researchers would have found him by now. What he did was something to brag about, not hide from.

L.

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 08 Jul 2013 21:35

Funny little piece of "auxiliary information" just surfaced. I'm reading the memoir of Hans Baur ("I was Hitler's pilot"), Hitler's chief pilot, which have just recently (2013) been published in English. On page 179, Baur claim to have witnessed the landing of von Greim and Reitsch. Allegedly, he is standing at the Victory Column, discussing with one Colonel Ehlers that the trees on either side of the Charlottenburger Chaussee - the improvised landing strip between the Victory Column and the Brandenburg Gate - must be cut down to make space for bigger aircraft. Suddenly they see a Storch land close to the Gate. It turns out to be von Greim and Reitsch.

Remarkable coincidence - if it is true. Unfortunately Baur (who btw died in 1993) seems ti be a somewhat unreliable witness in several aspects; getting date an time wrong on major events etc., at least in this belated English translation. I had hoped, he could shed light on the identity of the pilot in question here, but alas...

BTW anyone who can put a first name on said Colonel Ehlers..?

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby phylo_roadking » 08 Jul 2013 22:45

Allegedly, he is standing at the Victory Column, discussing with one Colonel Ehlers that the trees on either side of the Charlottenburger Chaussee - the improvised landing strip between the Victory Column and the Brandenburg Gate - must be cut down to make space for bigger aircraft.


IIRC Reitsch's account reports seeing a Ju 52 on the ground but under repair when she arrived, didn't she?

However - seeing a plane under repair, and discussions being on hands about widening improvised strips, is not guarantee that the plane actually got repaired...

I do think the two data items do fit together nicely, the Ju 52 being repaired and consideration being made to flying off a larger aircraft than Reitsch's Storch...but what we're seeing is the shape of/traces of a plan at this point - not necessarily one that ever came to fruition.
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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby Larry D. » 09 Jul 2013 00:36

No Oberstleutnante or Obersten by the name of Ehlers in the Luftwaffe; but there were a couple of Majore. So Baur's pal must have been Heer or Waffen-SS.

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 10 Jul 2013 20:56

Larry, thanks. He might have been Luftwaffe as I understand the Victory Column acted as a control tower, but more likely he was a land trooper, Heer or SS, involved in perimeter defense (poor chap :wink: ). Wonder if it was the same guy Speer yelled at because he wanted to cut down the designer-lampposts...

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 10 Jul 2013 21:09

phylo_roadking wrote:
Allegedly, he is standing at the Victory Column, discussing with one Colonel Ehlers that the trees on either side of the Charlottenburger Chaussee - the improvised landing strip between the Victory Column and the Brandenburg Gate - must be cut down to make space for bigger aircraft.


IIRC Reitsch's account reports seeing a Ju 52 on the ground but under repair when she arrived, didn't she?

However - seeing a plane under repair, and discussions being on hands about widening improvised strips, is not guarantee that the plane actually got repaired...

I do think the two data items do fit together nicely, the Ju 52 being repaired and consideration being made to flying off a larger aircraft than Reitsch's Storch...but what we're seeing is the shape of/traces of a plan at this point - not necessarily one that ever came to fruition.


phylo,

I have wondered about the Ju 52's as well. According to Groehler; Die neue Reichskanzlei, p. 52, two Ju 52, loaded with anti-tank ammunition lands smoothly on April 26. On take-off (with wounded soldiers) one hit an obstacle (a tree, perhaps) and crashes. All are killed. Two days later, according to Koller; Der letzte Mlonat, p. 93, 103, three planes of a flight of 12 Ju 52 fail to locate the East-West axis due to poor visibility. Plane no 4 does find the strip, but is warded off by the "control tower", likely because of a crash of machine no 3, which was never heard of again.

It seems though, that larger airplanes were able to land prior to Baur's discussion with colonel Ehlers.

Hanna Reitsch allegedly (O'Donnell, the Bunker) saw a Ju 52 standing in readiness on April 30th, as she and von Greim took off. This in turn has led to consideration with many conspiracy-lovers that the plane was an escape-vessel for Hitler (as i.e. in the latest contribution; Grey Wolf :lol: )

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby phylo_roadking » 10 Jul 2013 21:23

It seems though, that larger airplanes were able to land prior to Baur's discussion with colonel Ehlers.


But remember - even a STOL aircraft....or in the case of the Ju52 a relatively STOL aircraft :P...normally takes a shorter distance to land than it does to take off again! :wink:

Hanna Reitsch allegedly (O'Donnell, the Bunker) saw a Ju 52 standing in readiness on April 30th


"Ready"....or it having been the one she saw when she landed...just not being worked on any more? ;)
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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 10 Jul 2013 21:37

phylo_roadking wrote:
It seems though, that larger airplanes were able to land prior to Baur's discussion with colonel Ehlers.


But remember - even a STOL aircraft....or in the case of the Ju52 a relatively STOL aircraft :P...normally takes a shorter distance to land than it does to take off again! :wink:

Hanna Reitsch allegedly (O'Donnell, the Bunker) saw a Ju 52 standing in readiness on April 30th


"Ready"....or it having been the one she saw when she landed...just not being worked on any more? ;)


Good points both of them. I can only say that Groehler explains that one Ju actually did take off successfully, while the other crashed. And I've btw made a blunder before; Baur's talk with colonel Ehlers actually took place on April 25th, so perhaps the trees (and Speer lamps) were gone on the 26th.

As to Reitch's observation, she does not mention the incident in her memoir. Accoording to O'Donnell, she made a casual remark about it to her American interrogators - and further interpretation of this remark is anyone's guess. Personally, I find it a bit hard to stomach as she - in her memoir - describes how she on "caught a glimpse" of the Brandenburg Gate, as they took off...

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby wartourist » 10 Jul 2013 21:40

I forgot to mention; the stretch from Brandenburg gate to the Victory Column is 1,8 kilometers. I know; I've walked it several times in burning sunshine ;-)

Dan

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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby phylo_roadking » 10 Jul 2013 22:06

I forgot to mention; the stretch from Brandenburg gate to the Victory Column is 1,8 kilometers.


According to Groehler; Die neue Reichskanzlei, p. 52, two Ju 52, loaded with anti-tank ammunition lands smoothly on April 26. On take-off (with wounded soldiers) one hit an obstacle (a tree, perhaps) and crashes.


1.8 Kms is certainly long enough...but was it clear for that length then? And do we take it from that that it wasn't clear enough after all? ;)

Baur's talk with colonel Ehlers actually took place on April 25th, so perhaps the trees (and Speer lamps) were gone on the 26th.


....or not, as the case may be ;)
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Re: Last plane out of Berlin - who was the pilot?

Postby Halfdan S. » 16 May 2018 21:03

Larry D. wrote:No Oberstleutnante or Obersten by the name of Ehlers in the Luftwaffe; but there were a couple of Majore. So Baur's pal must have been Heer or Waffen-SS.

L.


Venghaus, p. 443, has this guy as: "Luftwaffenoberst Eilers" - would this get us any closer to his identity?

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