New (2002) ME-262s built

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Dan Feltmate
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Post by Dan Feltmate » 14 Apr 2002 05:05

How much are they.....




Where's my wallet??????


Those are really nice. I don't like the cockpit window, or the 2 seater idea. Oh well, can't be perfect.

Birgitte, if you want a gunner i'll pitch in 1/2 the money!

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Birgitte Heuschkel
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Re: .

Post by Birgitte Heuschkel » 14 Apr 2002 05:11

Dan Feltmate wrote:Birgitte, if you want a gunner i'll pitch in 1/2 the money!


Well, since I'd probably not be able to drive the darn thing AND clear obstacles (read: traffic) at the same time, you're on! ... Anyone up for radio operator, reloader, and driver? I'll be in the turret, looking important.

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 14 Apr 2002 05:41

What I don;t understand is why they didn't check excellent references such as the Classic Publications volumes 1-4 on the Me 262. The markings are totally bogus on an otherwise interesting trainer a/c.

E

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 14 Apr 2002 10:31

Agh, that ME-262 has gotten me distracted from my 2001 Nissan Silvia 200SX S-15 R-spec.......... I want both damnit :x

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 14 Apr 2002 10:34

Well I could imagine not everyone would care to fly around with swastika on the tail of their airplane. Plus people start getting all upset when something like that is put on things. Would the aircraft be allowed into say France with the swastika on the tail? All and all I think it is pretty sweet project, they look really nice.

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Snafu
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Post by Snafu » 14 Apr 2002 13:12

Birgitte Heuschkel:
Anyone up for radio operator, reloader, and driver? I'll be in the turret, looking important.


Just let me handle the bow machinegun, pleeeease! :mrgreen:

Dan
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Post by Dan » 14 Apr 2002 13:50

The reason the swastika is left out is given in the original link from Marcus. It is wrong, but necessary given that we are still fighting WW2 in the sense that we are using the old propaganda to justify fighting it.

One of my chemistry professors wrote his own text books, and there was a picture of the Hindenberg. It boasted a swastica in the mid thirties, and the editor wanted to remove it but my teacher refused. There really is a "forbidden fruit" emotional aspect that it causes in some, and an unreasoning hatred caused in others.

Karl
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Post by Karl » 14 Apr 2002 14:19

I will insist on a Hakenkreuz on my model (but will probably only fly it at night :? ).

For history’s sake, you gotta stick to the original markings, you just gotta.

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Post by Timo » 14 Apr 2002 14:49

Hmmm. Another useless discussion. Keep in mind: they sell these replicas to people with money. Of those who buy these planes only a minority even cares for correct marks. Au contraire. I think they loose buyers if they apply a Swastika.

Besides: if you have the money for such a replica, you have the means to apply a Swastika yourself if you want one.

Just my 2 cents,
Timo

Karl
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Post by Karl » 14 Apr 2002 15:59

>>>Hmmm. Another useless discussion.<<<

I am sorry. I was not aware that you were the newly appointed High Priest of Profundity, the one who deems what is important and what is not. I shall be sure to consult you before posting anything in the future.

>>>Keep in mind: they sell these replicas to people with money.<<<

I see. So they are not giving them away?

>>>Of those who buy these planes only a minority even cares for correct marks. Au contraire. I think they loose buyers if they apply a Swastika.<<<

Well, should be up to the buyer. Maybe they had the option, I really don’t know.

>>>Besides: if you have the money for such a replica, you have the means to apply a Swastika yourself if you want one.<<<

Why would I do that when I paid good money for my ME-262? It’s like getting a car customized –on special order- and then after delivery applying the final details of the paint job yourself in the shameful anonymity of your garage at midnight (only on weekends).

You know Timo, I am still shocked that Thorfinn (a German/Norwegian) can speak better Fries then you (a Friesian) can! :P

Dan
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Post by Dan » 14 Apr 2002 16:03

Good post Karl.

Mark C. Yerger
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Post by Mark C. Yerger » 14 Apr 2002 16:31

Personally, I couldn't car less about the paint job or markings. Seeing it fly is my interest, especially with better engines enclosed to make the outline remain like the original design. A Porsche is a Porsche and anyone wants to drive/own one, no matter what the color.

Mark

Timo
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Post by Timo » 14 Apr 2002 18:59

Karl wrote:You know Timo, I am still shocked that Thorfinn (a German/Norwegian) can speak better Fries then you (a Friesian) can! :P


And when was that? As far as I know Thorfinn was only able to write old Frisian better than I can. Unfortunately for him he writes old Frisian and thats way different from Frisian spoken today. I allready pointed out that 99 percent of my generation can't write official Frisian and don't use the old fashion words he uses. The reason for that: Thorfinn has a fetish with useless languages, I don't. I live in Amsterdam (Holland), where 16 million people speak Dutch, not in Friesland were nobody uses the Frisian Thorfinn learned. BTW: did you ever hear him speak Frisian? For all I know he can write it, using an old Frisian dictonary. Which explains his lack of knowledge of real Frisian. In short, your statement that Thorfinn speaks Frisian better than me makes absolutely no sense.

>>>Of those who buy these planes only a minority even cares for correct marks. Au contraire. I think they loose buyers if they apply a Swastika.<<<

Well, should be up to the buyer. Maybe they had the option, I really don’t know.


But that was not the discussion. Most people here said they want the Swastika applied, nobody mentioned an option. They want it historically correct, remember?

You wrote:
For history’s sake, you gotta stick to the original markings, you just gotta.


So what is it? Do you want them to stick to the original markings ("you just gotta") or to make it an option? You think the Swastika was optional in 1945?

>>>Besides: if you have the money for such a replica, you have the means to apply a Swastika yourself if you want one.<<<

Why would I do that when I paid good money for my ME-262? It’s like getting a car customized –on special order- and then after delivery applying the final details of the paint job yourself in the shameful anonymity of your garage at midnight (only on weekends).


Well. Look at it the other way. Say I am German or Dutch and I want to buy that plane. If the Swastika is standard applied, I need to go through the same trouble to get rid of it. Remember that these (and other) countries don't allow you to fly around with a Swastika on your plane. Thats like buying a car and going through a lot of trouble to make it street legal.

When you reply, please reply in a way that makes sense. Good post Dan!!!

Ovidius
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Historically Correct

Post by Ovidius » 14 Apr 2002 23:16

>>>Of those who buy these planes only a minority even cares for correct marks. Au contraire. I think they loose buyers if they apply a Swastika.<<<

Well, should be up to the buyer. Maybe they had the option, I really don’t know.


But that was not the discussion. Most people here said they want the Swastika applied, nobody mentioned an option. They want it historically correct, remember?


I prefer it Historically Correct than Politically Correct.

In Romania and other former Eastern Bloc countries, the model airplanes can have any historical markings(which is irrelevant, because most model kits available on the market are low-quality Russian ones, which have wrong markings and details anyway). The fact is that Political Correctness does not apply to this mere level of nitpicking as in West. :P

The reasons may be deeper, however. Up to 1990, the Communist regime did not allow for any serious info outside the official line to be published about the pre-1945 times. :( About the military operations of the Royal Romanian Army, only Stalingrad was quoted - to show how "Fascists lost". After the 1970s, President Ceausescu had allowed a certain degree of relaxation - for example the historical novel authors were allowed to describe Marshal Antonescu as "being a misled victim", therefore humanizing his image. :)

After 1990, the sides had changed - the period from August 1944 to May 1945 was suddenly forgotten. The authors, journalists etc began to spoke about the deeds of the Romanian military forces in the Anti-Soviet War, which was an expectable reaction against the former Communism - a way to show that we were not communized without defending our interests first. After all, the Soviet Union had been openly our enemy for decades - first Bessarabia, that the military occupation, then the economical harassment etc. This led to the re-positioning of the heroes of the Anti-Soviet War on their rightful places. There were even streets to bear the name of Marshal Antonescu, and statues of him built.

Neither in Communism, nor afterwards, had been the Holocaust publicized - just a few paragraphs in books dealing with the war. Thoughtcrimes Laws did not exist as such - just some obscure and never enforced articles of the Criminal Code dealing with "propaganda for totalitarian systems".

Suddenly, this spring three events happened:

1. a low-level journalist had made a documentary trying to show that Romanians are Anti-Semites; to the question of the TV moderator "How can be Anti-Semitism where there are almost no Jews?" he answered by showing a poll in which the people asked on the street what Holocaust was, answered "I don't exactly know, something about Hitler and war". The documentary had been broadcasted at an inconvenient hour, so I can bet neither Victor, nor other Romanian members here had seen it.

2. very soon after, US Ambassador Michael Guest had held a speech in which he condemned the "cult of Fascist war criminals";

3. Soon after #2, Prime Minister Adrian Nastase had tried to impose a Government Order banning the "signs displaying extremist political doctrines" and stuff.

There was even a No. 4: the historical magazines suddenly changed their tone; in articles dealing with the Eastern War appeared "disclaimers" telling that "we did not want war, we were forced into it". It's obvious what did provoke this change.

I apologize for the length of the message, and the Off-Topic subject.

What I wished to outline is the fact that the Political Correct noose had already begun to tighten even around our necks, here in Romania, where we enjoyed the illusion of "free" speech for a decade. Thoughtcrimes are not allowed to remain unpunished, not even here. I bet soon the Hackenkreuz markings on the models will vanish here as well. :cry:

~Regards,

Ovidius

Karl
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Post by Karl » 15 Apr 2002 01:04

Timo I am really disappointed. That was a very lame response and I simply don’t have the time to play with you now.

( 8O Thorfinn speaks better Fries then you!!! 8O )

Te groeten jo! :P

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