The Last airplane shot down ww2 ?? - Help needed

[Ironmachine]

Actually, it is very easy to make a mistake while making a instant recognition or judgement in combat. It is a kill or be killed affair, with no time for further considerations. Probably the pilots were in the "if it is not a U.S. aircraft, then it must be a German aircraft" mode (i.e., you are not expecting to see Soviet aircrat), so when they could not identify the La as an U.S. aircraft they considered it an enemy fighter.

[kriegsmarine221]

well did they see the bright red star and the USSR flag with the hammer and sickle on it? it was a bit obvious wasnt it? and i wonder why this kozelub chap flew into the b-17 squadron anyway.

[Heimatschuss]

Hello,

when it comes to the European war theatre, I rememberr reading somewhere that the soviet airforce shot down a number of Ju-52s and He-111s that were trying to leave the Courland pocket on the morning of May 9th, 1945. They had been sent in from Norway the previous night for a medevac mission.

Sorry, all from memory only.

Best regards
Torsten

[Ironmachine]

well did they see the bright red star and the USSR flag with the hammer and sickle on it? it was a bit obvious wasnt it? and i wonder why this kozelub chap flew into the b-17 squadron anyway.

No, it is not so obvious as you believe. This is not a situations of calmly looking at a photograph with all the time you need to identify what's there. You are flying a high-speed object against another high-speed object, a situation were it is already difficult enough to diferentiate aircraft models, much more so trying to see a small roundel or star (don't remember any USSR flag in soviet aircraft) at combat distances.
Regarding why Kozhedub approached the B-17 squadron, some versions of the event state that the B-17s were under attack from German planes, and he tried to help. This would also explain the actions of the U.S. fighter pilots: if there were already German planes in the area attacking the bombers, they surely considered any extrange plane appearing there as German.
And please, note that I am not saying that this event is a proven thing, only that it was not impossible.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

One Mexican-American pilot became an ace in a single combat on about 20 August 1945. He ran into a bunch of Japanese aircraft over Taiwan, I believe, and shot five down!

Cheers,

Sid.

[kriegsmarine221]

thats nothing. one guy became an ace in a day. he was flying a me-262 armed with r4m rockets and he shot down 14 b-17 bombers in one mission.

[Ironmachine]

Do you have a source for that, with the name of the pilot, the date and the location?
Because the only event similar to this that I can find is (from http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/R4M-rocket):

French ace Pierre Clostermann notes in his book The Big Show that in March 1945, six R4M-armed Me 262s flying out of the Oberammergau flight test center and led by Luftwaffe General Gordon Gollob claimed to have shot down 14 B-17s in a mission.

That's six Me-262s, not a single pilot. Quite a difference!

And IIRC the man usually credited with the most kills in a single mission is Erich Rudorffer with 13 kills in October 1943.

[kriegsmarine221]

could bomber pilots be considered aces? in a world war 2 aviation book a pe-8 pilot and crew was in a tactical bombing mission supporting the battle at lake balaton. the gunners managed to bring down 4 bf-109s. and it wouldnt be unrealistic because the pe-8s defensive armament was small but deadly. 2xshkas machineguns in the nose, 2x shvak cannon in the tail and dorsal position and 2xUBS machineguns in the engine nacelles.

[kriegsmarine221]

and i would consider chasing a pe-8 more dangerous than chasing a b-17 from the rear. if you chased the pe-8 from the rear you would face fire from 2 cannons and 2 heavy machineguns. while the b-17 only armament facing backwards was 2 m2 brownings.

[Ironmachine]

Kriegsmarine221, as I asked before, can you provide a source for your statement:

thats nothing. one guy became an ace in a day. he was flying a me-262 armed with r4m rockets and he shot down 14 b-17 bombers in one mission.

[kriegsmarine221]

ive been proved wrong. you answered that question yourself.

[Ironmachine]

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

Try the following for Oscar Perdomo, who shot down five Japanese aircraft in a single mission on 13 August 1945:

http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/oscarp.htm

His victories were confirmed by his gun camera.

He may not have scored the last victory of WWII, but he must have a good claim to be the last ace of WWII.

Cheers,

Sid.

[kriegsmarine221]

why werent there any american aircraft carriers present in the european front?

[R Leonard]

why werent there any american aircraft carriers present in the european front?

Whatever gave you the idea there were not? Of course there were.