Faber Family

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Larry D.
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 17 Mar 2011 14:04

After thinking about it for a minute, if it's training for sighting equipment then they would need something to practice "seeing". A balloon maybe?
That could be. Launch the balloon to 20,000 feet and then practice with their range-finding equipment. The sphere is transparent because I can see neck and jacket lapels of the woman standing behind it, but why would it be sitting on a tripod? It also appears to be hinged, so it may not be a balloon but rather a spherical shell with something inside of it such as a radio transponder. It's anyone's guess!

Sunkisdgrl
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Sunkisdgrl » 17 Mar 2011 20:40

Looking at all of the other pictures of this "sphere" it looks like the woman is holding it but it doesn't look like it's fighting gravity to float up. I asked in this thread and so maybe I'm back to WBZ standing for the weather service? http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=176232

Thanks again, Cammie

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 17 Mar 2011 22:27

Cammie - I would tend to trust SES's reading on these unless proven otherwise. He is much better at equipment identification than I am. But why would Flak personnel be working with weather observation equipment? It is entirely possible that the headquarters of a Flak-Division and perhaps even a Flak-Regiment had a small section of personnel trained in weather observation. I would think wind speed, wind sheer, gusts and the like would play a role in gun-laying because it would have to be taken into consideration when aiming. The target aircraft would have to be led to account for altitude, wind speed and direction, and range. A Flak shell would have different ballistic characteristics in differing atmospheric conditions and determining how far ahead of the aircraft the shell should be aimed would require knowledge of numerous factors, including the weather. To be sure about all of this, we would need to do some digging. I have one source here that might throw some light on it and I will have a look and get back to you. Larry

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 17 Mar 2011 22:40

Success!
KStN 2451 (L) Flakwettertrupp (mot), 01.12.43, BA-MA Freiburg Signatur RL 2 III/575.This shows that a Trupp (roughly 10-12 people) of weather personnel was an organic component of Flak units, probably Flak-Divs. and Flak-Rgts.
So this is what these people in the photos were doing.

Larry

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SES
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Re: Faber Family

Post by SES » 17 Mar 2011 23:16

Larry D. wrote:Cammie - I would tend to trust SES's reading on these unless proven otherwise. He is much better at equipment identification than I am. But why would Flak personnel be working with weather observation equipment? It is entirely possible that the headquarters of a Flak-Division and perhaps even a Flak-Regiment had a small section of personnel trained in weather observation. I would think wind speed, wind sheer, gusts and the like would play a role in gun-laying because it would have to be taken into consideration when aiming. The target aircraft would have to be led to account for altitude, wind speed and direction, and range. A Flak shell would have different ballistic characteristics in differing atmospheric conditions and determining how far ahead of the aircraft the shell should be aimed would require knowledge of numerous factors, including the weather. To be sure about all of this, we would need to do some digging. I have one source here that might throw some light on it and I will have a look and get back to you. Larry
Hi Larry,
You are spot on. But it came as a surprise to me that a Flak.Div or even a Flak.Rgt had their own met.-unit. The Heer and the Kriegsmarine just used average winds measured miles apart every eight hours. Now we have to find out how many of the variables you correctly mention could actually be fed into the gun director (Fire Control Computer).
bregds
SES

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 18 Mar 2011 13:14

G'Day SES - I have Koch and Nicolaisen but neither go into much detail regarding the fire control process of the Kommandogerät 41 operated in conjunction with the EM 4m/34/36 other than to say it was a electronic range-finding, altitude and curve predictor. There doesn't appear to be any coverage of how weather predictions fit into this. Perhaps you have something on the process? I doubt if Cammie is really interested in the mechanics of AA fire control, but it would be interesting to find out the specific role of the Flakwettertrupp.
Best,
L.

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Re: Faber Family

Post by SES » 18 Mar 2011 14:30

Hi Larry,
I'll pursue the subject in another thread on the forum.
bregds
SES

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Heimatschuss » 18 Mar 2011 16:51

Hello,

this one is interesting
Image
saying
Frankfurt in unserem Hof. Auf Urlaub, weiter nach Kreuznach zur Schule 1942
i.e Frankfurt, in our yard. (Hof can have several meanings ranging from farm to court yard.) On leave, further on to Kreuznach for school 1942.

In Bad Kreuznach was the Führerinnenschule der Luftwaffe. Führerinnen can be roughly translated as femle officers though actually they were more like female ombudsmen employed as advisers for the officers running units staffed with women. The Kreuznach school also offered other courses sometimes but it looks like Faye may have had an interesting career.

Best regards
Torsten

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 18 Mar 2011 18:21

Excellent, Torsten!
The fact that the or a Führerinnenschule der Luftwaffe was located in Bad Kreuznach does not appear in Tessin Band XVI, the Lexikon der Wehrmacht web site or the Michael Holm web site ( http://www.ww2.dk/ ). Nor did I have this fact in by extensive notes covering all units of the Luftwaffe. That's a great find, and it confirms the nature of the school Faye attended in Kreuznach.

P.S. there was also a Reserve-Lazarett Bad Kreuznach.

Larry :D

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Sunkisdgrl » 18 Mar 2011 19:23

Thank you all so very much! I have a picture of Faye later in her career (judging by her facial features, as there is no date on it) wearing an all white uniform, it is badly overexposed and you can just bearly make out that she is even wearing a uniform, but you can tell it is white because she is wearing a colored scarf with a pattern on it. Would female officers wear a white uniform?

I am currently catering dinner for 70 people for tonight (my best friends 50th birthday party) and am scrambling to get this all finished in time, but I'll have some free time tomorrow and I will dig through the pictures to see if there are any additional pictures with a Kreuznach caption or any others of Faye in the white uniform that may not have been overexposed. I'm also going to work on getting the pictures of her specifically in date order. There seems to be an overabundance of pictures dated 1940-1943 and lack of later pictures, which would make sense with the continuation of the war.

Thanks so very much again. I'm so excited to be learning so much! ~Cammie

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Larry D. » 19 Mar 2011 00:01

The white uniform and colored scarf sound more like the postwar years. She may have become a nurse after the war. I have never seen a photo of a Luftwaffenhelferin in a white uniform.

Here is a thread with lots of photos of wartime German nurses in while uniforms that you can use for comparison purposes:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=174560

They were called Krankenschwestern (nurses or sisters), but they were not Luftwaffenhelferinen. Faye could not have been a weather specialist in the Flakartillerie and a nurse all at the same time.

I hope your dinner for 70 was buffet and you had some help with the cooking! :D

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Heimatschuss » 20 Mar 2011 13:38

Hi Larry,

I really should mark the day in my calender I could tell YOU something about Luftwaffe.
Larry D. wrote:Excellent, Torsten!
[...]
Larry :D
Minor correction, the actual name seems to have been Luftnachrichten-Führerinnen-Schule . I've piled up anything I could find on it here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p1570464 .

Best regards
Torsten

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Re: Faber Family

Post by Sunkisdgrl » 21 Mar 2011 08:35

Hello All! I've recovered from cooking and gratefully I did have help and it was a buffet :)

While enjoying my Sunday by spreading out these pictures and trying to place family members accurately and arrange Faye's career by date and location I came across the family tree or Familienbuch.

Faye came from a family of 7 siblings:

Angelika Maria or "Ange" b. Metz August 1 1892 / d. July 12 1971 Heemstede
Aimee Faber b. May 19 1894 / d. April 16 1923
Nicolas Faber or "Claas" b. March 1 1896 / d. June 2 1964 Frankfurt
Mathias Faber b. December 14 1903 / d. July 25 1927
Katharina Luzia b. June 29 1905 / d. July 22, 1950
Maria Magdalena b. Metz March 26, 1910 / d. December 26, 1966 Frankfurt
Felicitas Maria b. Metz March 26 1910 / d. 1983 or 84 (If I remember correctly) San Francisco

So, this explains the confusion on the military positions that Faye could be in during the same time period, as Maria also joined the Luftwaffe. Really? Could this be any more confusing? :roll: See picture below.
Faye could not have been a weather specialist in the Flakartillerie and a nurse all at the same time.
Her sister Maria may be the one pictured with the Ambulance? I also looked at the thread of nurses and the white uniform is not close to a nurses uniform, it looks like a business suit, it could be either Faye or Maria. I will try to take a good picture of it tomorrow in the sunlight and shade and see if either lighting will help bring out any details on it to post. I didn't think that many women would be wearing their bathing suits in Germany next to palm trees, so it may be that Maria was stationed in some more exotic location as there are some pictures like this which I thought were Faye, lol. Please see attached pictures captioned Maria, I'm hoping that the captions may translate as saying "sister"? As well as the other picture already posted above which I will change my caption on to reflect that it is Maria.

Nicolas or "Claas" joined the Kriegsmarine per pictures posted above. I'm not sure who the younger man in uniform pictured with him is but the woman looks to be the older Angelika Maria or Maria Angelika, as I've also noticed today it was written both ways. It looks as if "Ange" did not join military service, she would have been 50 years old in 1942.I have not found pictures for Katharina at all, unless the nickname "Gerda" could be short for Katharina? Doesn't sound close but there are many pictures of a "Gerda"?

On Faye's career, after extracting the pictures that I believe to be her twin sister Maria, it looks like a timeline based on captions could be:

1941 - Allerheiligenstr Frankfurt (see picture below)
1942- Off to school in Kreuznach (pictured above in this thread)
1942-1943- Weather Balloon pictures marked WBZ - and pictures of various Majors/UnderOfficers with Faye also marked WBZ, "Wetterbezirkszentrale" or Meteorological District Center located in Wiesbaden-Mainz-Rüdesheim area
1943- Picture of the beute French Renault. Lic # 258 111 Still need to find where this vehicle was assigned in 1943 to verify that this is Faye and not Maria standing in front. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... start=3165 - Thank you Bill
1944- Wiesbaden
1944- Rudesheim (see picture below)
1944- Frenkreich captioned picture below?

I've attached some additional pictures that I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to help with the captions on and if any part of that time line doesn't make sense based on what I've posted before please let me know as I'm making my best uneducated guesses :) Also if there is anything to add to any of these years that I've missed please let me know.

Knowing now that the school Faye attended in Bad Kreuznach 1942 was a training school for female Officers could she have been in the position of intermediary between the Officers and the female weather staff? Would that make sense rather than being on the weather staff? And I'm sorry but I could not find a definition for "Reserve-Lazarett" Bad Kreuznach, what does this mean?

Thanks again so much for all of the help ~Cammie
Allerheiligenstr Frankfurt.jpg
1.jpg
Caption1.jpg
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Last edited by Sunkisdgrl on 21 Mar 2011 23:19, edited 4 times in total.

Sunkisdgrl
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Sunkisdgrl » 21 Mar 2011 08:50

The blond woman pictured below is also labeled "Maria Faber Hoehn". Guessing another Maria in the Catholic Faber family?...so much for originality! I know it's a bad picture but it's so small that it was the best I could take. Would this be an Infantry type uniform? The patch is a dark diamond shape with a swastika in the middle and what looks like writing around it towards the edge of the circle.

The Alf to Fee picture is the caption from my Great-Grandfather Alfred to my Great-Grandmother Faye in 1931. If someone could translate this for me I would greatly appreciate it. I hope it may shed some light on how they met or the nature of their relationship before the War.

The third is the front of the picture to Faye from Maria in the caption above, just to give a clue how similar they were as twins.

Thanks again, Cammie
100_2532.jpg
Alf to Fee.jpg
Maria.jpg
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Heimatschuss
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Re: Faber Family

Post by Heimatschuss » 21 Mar 2011 14:22

Hello Cammie,

this woman is wearing the early uniform (1933 - 1936) of the Reich Labour Service (Reichsarbeitsdienst).

Image
At the time it was still called Frauenarbeitsdienst (Female Labour Service). A number of examples of the windbreaker jacket with the diamond FAD patch is in this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7&start=60

Best regards
Torsten

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