Me 262 went supersonic in 1944?

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JTG
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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#316

Post by JTG » 20 Jun 2011, 02:54

Is there any possibility that this thead could interest a moderator?

With a view to closing it?

At the moment all it seems to do is act as a horrible example of how to do no research and post unsubstantiated opinions (on the one hand) ..

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#317

Post by Topspeed » 20 Jun 2011, 15:53

Piotr Mikołajski wrote:
Topspeed wrote:Achammer bailed out and survived, but was kicked out of the training for loosing a priceless plane.
I have no idea what kind of sources do you have but you should throw all of them away. Priceless plane? Germans had dozens of Me 262 grounded due to different reasons, mostly due to lack of fuel. Kicking off experienced pilot during conversion to completely new weapon system during wartime? This is one of the most stupid statements I've ever heard / read.

Kicked out and sent to the old unit. Also Motke found it obscure...since his plane sustained damage too in a dive. Maybe Achammer stalled while evading or something and Heinz Bär saw it in the tower or elsewhere ?!


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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#318

Post by Topspeed » 20 Jun 2011, 15:56

phylo_roadking wrote:
Achammer bailed out and survived, but was kicked out of the training for loosing a priceless plane
So an experienced pilot converting to type - a conversion process fraught with peril itself - was thrown out of training for loosing an aircraft to enemy action during takeoff, a time (along with landing) when the Me 262 was known and recognised as being extremely vulnerable?

Crap.

Actually -literally crap - http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co ... lotsA.html
One known victory, a P-51 of 359FG, 368FS, piloted by Capt. M.F. Boussu, near the Lechfeld airfield on 9 April, 1945
Seems like he was operational...
Now I am confused....was Motke returned to basic unit after having wrecked the Me 262 in a dive ?

From the link; Defected to Switzerland in "White 3" on 24 April, 1945 rather than face capture by the French, after running low on fuel. Featured on the History Channel. His "White 3" is on display at the Deutsche Museum in Munich. Jager Blatt 1/1997. Claimed to be the first to break the sound barrier on a 9 April, 1945 mission, during a steep dive. When he made his landing, he found his wings had buckeled and many rivets had popped. The claim is disputed. After the war, he was an airline pilot and a Dr, specializing in Aviation Medicine. Deceased 8 April, 2004. Boiten 1 victory.

I bet his White 9 was under repair since he defected in a White 3+1...?

Achammer data he also remembers incorrectly.

He defected only 15 days after his sonic dive !

Here is Hans Quido Mutke in flesh in a History Channel document; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_I9j4x ... re=related also the all moving elevator stabilizer here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3VzThjM ... re=related

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#319

Post by phylo_roadking » 20 Jun 2011, 22:25

Now I am confused....was Motke returned to basic unit after having wrecked the Me 262 in a dive ?
IF you had read through the page on the link I posted up - you'd have come across FRED ACHAMMER, not Motke.

It was ACHAMMER who earned this kill when flying Me 262s -
Achammer data he also remembers incorrectly
So maybe Achammer WASN'T thrown out of training as your earlier post said? :roll: His record would indicate a successful if short career flying Me 262s.
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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#320

Post by AL Schlageter » 21 Jun 2011, 03:22

Topspeed wrote:
phylo_roadking wrote:
Now I am confused....was Motke returned to basic unit after having wrecked the Me 262 in a dive ?
We have all noticed your confusion.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#321

Post by Topspeed » 21 Jun 2011, 10:27

phylo_roadking wrote:
Now I am confused....was Motke returned to basic unit after having wrecked the Me 262 in a dive ?
IF you had read through the page on the link I posted up - you'd have come across FRED ACHAMMER, not Motke.

It was ACHAMMER who earned this kill when flying Me 262s -
Achammer data he also remembers incorrectly
So maybe Achammer WASN'T thrown out of training as your earlier post said? :roll: His record would indicate a successful if short career flying Me262s.

Motke says Achammer's planes engine caught fire and he bailed out...and Bär sent him out to his old unit as agreed if plane is lost. I checked it this morning of his presentation. Maybe he got confused with someone else...or the situation in Lechfeld was confusing.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#322

Post by phylo_roadking » 21 Jun 2011, 18:30

This is very superficially told...Achammer was pounded by a P-51 D while taking off and Bär ( exprerienced ace ) radioed to Motke what was going on..they were still learning to fly the Me 262.

Achammer bailed out and survived,...
Bailed out....when jumped while taking off???
Achammer data he also remembers incorrectly
So far it amounts to one severely incorrect datum about Achammer's career...and one physical impossibility! 8O
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Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#323

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 21 Jun 2011, 21:28

phylo_roadking wrote:So far it amounts to one severely incorrect datum about Achammer's career...and one physical impossibility! 8O
This thread is full of physical impossibilities ;)
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#324

Post by Topspeed » 22 Jun 2011, 08:49

So far I have counted 2 recollections of Mutke that are not correct.

1. The Me 262 speed indicator does not go beyond 1100 km/h..last figure in 1000 km/h.
2. Achammer scored an P-51D on the day he claimes to have tried to save Achammer by diving to help him.

That kinda mistakes are plausible when 44 years had passed after his incident....but it does leave a question mark...what if the story about altitude and sequency of things happening were also falty recollections...it would destroy the substance totally of his claim.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944?

#325

Post by Buster01 » 11 Jan 2016, 01:01

Any guess why Mutke waited until anyone who could contradict him had died?

Answer: All he wanted was his 15 minutes of fame.

IMHO, thanks for the entertainment.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944?

#326

Post by Topspeed » 19 Jan 2016, 10:29

He also could have gotten info enough to be sure the phenomena he faced was a super sonic flite.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#327

Post by Topspeed » 27 Apr 2018, 06:13

Piotr Mikołajski wrote:
phylo_roadking wrote:So far it amounts to one severely incorrect datum about Achammer's career...and one physical impossibility! 8O
This thread is full of physical impossibilities ;)
Even a DC-8 has gone supersonic.

Jetplane going supersonic is not impossible...quite the other way round.

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Re: Me 262 went supersonic in 1944

#328

Post by Topspeed » 27 Apr 2018, 08:37

Piotr Mikołajski wrote:FWIW: Parallel thread with the same claims is active on Homebuilt Airplanes.com: Me 262 went supersonic in 1945 !
People tend to find the truth. I was banned from the HBA site.

Polish citizens claim they have exceeded the Betz's limit in wind turbine efficiency...with a clear margin...reaching 70%.

And guess what...I do believe them !
vertical-axis-wind-turbine.jpg

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