Indigenous Romanian Fighters

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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Robert Hurst
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Indigenous Romanian Fighters

Post by Robert Hurst » 10 Mar 2003 16:42

Hi

CV-11

The first original aircraft design produced by the Industria Aeronautica Romana (IAR) was the CV-11 single-seat fighter competed and flown in 1930. Designed by Elie Carafoli and a French engineer, M Virmoux, the CV-11 was of mixed construction and powered by a 600 hp Lorraine 12Fa Courlis 12-cylinder W-type engine, armament comprising two 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Vickers Machine guns. After completion of the initial flight test programme, the Lorraine engine was replaced by a 500 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Mc 12-cylinder Vee-type engine with which it was tested at Istres, France, during the first quarter of 1931. It then returned to Romania, where, on 9 December 1931, the CV-11 made an attempt on the 500-km (310.7 mile) closed-circuit speed record. However, an engine failure necessitated a forced landing in which the pilot, Capt Romeo Popescu, was killed.

Further development of the basic design by Carafoli led to the IAR 12.

Data (The following data relates to the HS-engined CV-11)

Maximum speed: 329 km/h (204 mph) at 300 m (985 ft), 3023 km/h (188 mph) at 5,000 m (16,405 ft); Time to 5,000 m (16,405 ft), 8.25 min.
Weight (empty): 1,100 kg (2,425 lb)
Weight (loaded): 1,510 kg (3,329 lb)
Span: 11.50 m (37 ft 8 3/4 in)
Length: 6.98 m (22 ft 10 7/8 in)
Height: 2.46 m (8ft 0 3/4 in)
Wing area: 18.20 sq m (195.9 sq ft)

IAR 12

Owing much to experience gained with the CV-11, being of similar configuration and mixed construction, the IAR 12, designed by Elie Cafaroli, was aerodynamically more advanced than its predecessor. It was heavier and had a lower-powered engine, however. Flown for the first time in 1932, the IAR 12 had a mixed structure of duralumin and Romanian pine. The fuselage was covered by light alloy panels forward and fabric aft of the cockpit, the wings being fabric skinned. The engine was a 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb of W type, and armament consisted of two 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Vickers machine guns.

Only one prototype of the IAR 12 was built, development continuing with an improved model, the IAR 13.

Data

Maximum speed: 294 km/h (183 mph at sea level, 263 km/h (163 mph) at 5,000 m (16,405 ft); Time to 5,000 m (16,405 ft) 10.48 min
Weight (empty): 1,150 kg (2,535 lb)
Weight (loaded): 1,540 kg (3,395 lb)
Span: 11.70 m (38 ft 4 2/3 in)
Length: 7.20 m (23 ft 7 2/3 in)
Height: 3.50 m (11 ft 5 3/4 in)
Wing area: 19.80 sq m (213.13 sq ft)

The above data and photos were taken from "The Complete Book of Fighters", by William Green.

Regards

Bob
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gabriel pagliarani
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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 10 Mar 2003 19:17

These planes had to be obsolete and not yet used during WW2. Are you out of main theme or do you think they were still used during the Reich?

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 10 Mar 2003 19:34

Robert,

Thanks for that info, always nice with info on the non-German equipment too.

/Marcus

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Post by savantu » 10 Mar 2003 21:02

We builded IAR 80,80A,80B,81,81A,81B,81C.
IAR80 was a fighter,while IAR81 was designed for ground attack,but was used as a fighter also.

IAR.80A
In April of 1941 the Romanians were firmly in the German sphere, and as a result the Germans released more of the FN guns for their use. These were quickly incorporated into the design, and the resulting 80A model finally mounted the original design compliment of six guns. The design also added armored glass to the windscreen, armor to the seat-back, and a new Goerz gunsight.

They also took this opportunity to mount the newer 1025hp K14-1000A engine. The extra engine power proved to be more than the fuselage structure was designed to handle, and it had to be reinforced with a duralumin "belt" just behind the cockpit in the first ninety-five A series aircraft built before the fuselage could be modified.

Although the IAR.80A had a more powerful engine, the added weight of the guns, ammunition and armor plating actually reduced the top speed slightly to 316mph. Nevertheless the new model was clearly a advancement, and the A model replaced the earlier one on the assembly line starting with the 51st airframe. Eight of these had been completed in time for the invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22nd, 1941.

Even the release of more of the FN guns couldn't make up the entire needed supply, so throughout late 1941 and early 1942, guns from the PZL's and some observation aircraft were stripped and used in the IAR's.

Specifications for the IAR.80A
Engine: 1025hp (764kW) IAR K14-1000A air-cooled 14 cylinder double-row radial
Dimensions: span 9.09m (29ft 9 3/4in)
length 9.22m (30ft 11 7/8in)
height 3.82m (12ft 6 3/4 in)
Weights: empty 1617kg (3,565lbs)
max loaded 2248kg (4,957lbs)
Wing Area: 17m2 (183ft2)
Wing Loading: 132.35kg/m2 (27.1lbs/ft2)
Performance: maximum speed 510km/h (316mph) at 4000m
service ceiling 9500m (31,200ft)
range 1150km (715miles)
Armament: six FN (Browning) 7.92mm with 500 rounds each mounted in the inner portion of the wing

IAR.81C
The final stage in the IAR.80's wartime history was the 81C. This version changed the guns once again, this time to the Mauser MG 151/20 which was replacing the MG/FF-M in German service and had just been released for Romanian use. The order for the 81C was placed in May of 1942, predating the second order of the 81A's.

The first order for 100 airframes was delivered, like all of the prior updates to the 81 series, with the centerline bomb rack removed to be used as fighters. An additional order for thirty-five was placed in February 1943, and then another fifteen in January 1944. These planes were primarily to replace losses in earlier models, while production of the 109G ramped up.

Specifications for the IAR.81C
Engine: 1025hp (764kW) IAR K14-1000A air-cooled 14 cylinder double-row radial
Dimensions: span 9.09m (29ft 9 3/4in)
length 9.22m (30ft 11 7/8in)
height 3.82m (12ft 6 3/4 in)
Weights: empty 2200kg (4,850lbs)
max loaded 2980kg (6,570lbs)
Wing Area: 17m2 (183ft2)
Wing Loading: 132.35kg/m2 (27.1lbs/ft2)
Performance: maximum speed 550km/h at 7000m (342mph at 22,965ft)
unknown at sea level
cruise speed unknown
service ceiling 9500m (31,200ft)
range 730km (454miles) on internal fuel only
Armament: two 20mm MG151/20 and four 7.92mm FN mounted in the inner portion of the wing


Image

Image

"On the 1st of August the US 9th Air Force re-opened the offensive on the Ploesti with a mission by 178 B-24's operating at long range from Libya. The plan was to approach at low altitude in order to avoid radar detection and thus minimize defensive reaction, but it backfired for a number of reasons. The planes were in fact met by 59 IAR.80's and 81's of the latest types, which were identified by the US crews as Fw 190's. The IAR's shot down an astonishing twenty of the B-24's for the loss of only one plane and three damaged (and an additional Me 110 lost). Luftwaffe units also participated with 89 sorties, adding another fifteen bombers. The low altitude approach also put the bombers within easy reach of the flak, which by this time were ready and waiting. In the end the 9th lost 53 bombers shot down, another 8 forced down in Turkey, and 55 damaged. With one-third of the attacking force lost outright and another third written off, US operations were again called off.

Throughout the second half of 1943 units on the Soviet front started exchanging their older IAR models and receiving 109's in exchange. Many of the older planes were sent to units on the Black Sea where they served as convoy escorts, replacing the P.11's and P.24's that had previously been used in this secondary role. Older IAR's, 80 and 80A's, were handed off to Grupul 3 which became a conversion training unit in mid 1943, being replaced at the front with the new Grupul 4 bopi with their IAR 81C's.

By the end of October 1943 the Crimean was cut off from the mainland with a large number of German and Romanian troops still occupying it. Supply of the troops was entirely by sea, and Grupul 4, with support from the 5th, provided air escort over the convoys. This continued until the final evacuation in May of 1944, by which time escadrila 49 of Grupul 4 on the peninsula had already been overrun.

To add to the confusion, operations against Ploesti started again with the USAAF now able to launch missions from the Italian mainland. This not only made the operations easier to support, it also allowed them to operate under the cover of escort fighters. Raids began again on the 5th of April 1944, when a high altitude raid by the 15th AF's B-24's took place. Another nine similar raids were carried out over April and May, but in general they resulted in little damage and losses to flak were high.

Although the IAR.80 was no match for the US escorts, this was addressed by attacking the escorts in Grupul 7's Bf 109's, while the IAR's of Grupul 6 (back home for their refit) and 2 continued on to attack the bombers. The result was that the USAAF was losing an average of 7% of their bombers on every mission. In exchange Grupul 2 only lost six IAR.81C's with another 13 damaged (loses for Grupul 6 are unknown), although this represented a good portion of their strength.

All of this is even more astonishing when you consider that the Luftwaffe was operating under considerably better conditions in the defense of Germany, yet fairing considerably worse. Not only did the bombers have to spend more time over enemy territory, but they were facing better radar, ground control, flak and fighters. Yet the 8th AF was in the process of destroying the Luftwaffe utterly, and the defenders never managed to operate in the coordinated fashion that the FARR seemed to pull off every time (albeit with lots of German assistance).

Clearly a change of tactics was needed on the part of the 15th AF, and so they made another attempt at a low-level raid, this time using P-38's which should have a considerably better chance against the flak. The mission was carried out at dawn on the 10th of June by fourty-six P-38's from the 82nd Fighter Group carrying 1,000lbs bombs, escorted by fourty-eight more P-38's from the 1st Fighter Group. Just before this on the 30th of May Grupul 2 had been rotated out to the Soviet front to reform, exchanging places with other units of Grupul 7.

Once again the low level raid did not conceal the planes from radar, and the defenders were aware of their approach. If that were not bad enough on it's own, their flight path took them right over Grupul 6's airbase at Pipera, and the early hour of the raid convinced their HQ that the raid was an attack on the airbase. Needless to say, Grupul 6's pilots were "well motivated".

First onto the raid were the units of JG53, an experienced Luftwaffe unit who happened upon the 82nd as they climbed for their attack. They claimed six of the P-38's for a single loss and and a ditched landing. Then it was Grupul 6's turn when their twenty-eight IAR.81C's came across the escort fighters of the 1st FG. The resulting combat lasted less than four minutes and the count at the end was eight P-38's downed (although they claimed fourteen) for four IAR's. The combat took place in a tight valley, which may explain why the superior P-38's performed poorly against the less powerful but more spritely IAR's. In all the attack lost twenty-three of it's planes, and once again the FARR handed the USAAF a 30% loss rate.

Nevertheless the raid was a success for the USAAF; the 82nd hit a number of important targets in the fields, and both groups had shot down a number of other Luftwaffe aircraft that shouldn't have been flying at the time. It would also prove to be the last success for the FARR. Over the next few weeks the 15th AF would find itself, and after another eleven heavily escorted high altitude raids (with some additional support by the RAF) Romanian oil production would be down to 20% of it's normal levels. The destruction of the Romanian oil fields is considered by many to be one of the turning points of the war.

In addition the better coordination and numbers of the later raids resulted in the sorts of outcomes that were more typical over Germany. Over the next month the FARR would lose fifty-six of it's leading pilots, several in a single day in August when the 15th flew over 1000 sorties. Although the end tally would be 223 bombers to about 60 fighters, the FARR couldn't replace those 60 while the 15th could replace those 223 with relative ease.
"

Excellent info about Romanian ww2 fighters :

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... iar80.html

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Robert Hurst
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Post by Robert Hurst » 11 Mar 2003 15:08

Hi

IAR 14

Although the Aeronautica Militara in 1934 selected the PZL P.11b (P.11f, licenced produced version) for the re-equipment of its fighter element, a small series of IAR 14s was also ordered that year for evaluation purposes. Flown in 1933, the IAR 14 was essentially similar to the IAR 13, but reverted to the Lorraine 12Eb engine, which while inferior to the HS 12Mc for fighter installation, had the advantage of being licence-built by IAR. Apart from the engine change, the fuselage of the IAR 14 was redesigned. The turnover pylon was incorporated in a faring aft of the cockpit, shorter-span, broad-cord ailerons were introduced, the vertical tail was redesigned an dthe span of the horizontal surfaces was increased, their inverted-Vee type bracing struts giving place to parallel struts.

Armament remained the standard 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Vickers guns. The twenty IAR 14s delivered to the Aeronautica Militara in 1934c were utilised, after service evaluation, in the fighter training role.

Data

Maximum speed: 294 km/h (183 mph) at sea level, 263 km/h (163 mph) at 5,000 m (16,405 ft); Time to 5,000 m (16, 405 ft) 10.45 min; Endurance 2.16 hrs
Weight (empty): 1,150 kg (2,535 lb)
Weight (loaded): 1,540 kg (3,395 lb)
Span: 11.70 m (38 ft 4 2/3 in)
Length: 7.32 m (24 ft 0 1/6 in)
Height: 2.50 m (8ft 2 1/2 in)
Wing area: 19.80 sq m (213.13 sq ft)

The above text and photos were taken from "The Complete Book of Fighters", By William Green.

Regards

Bob
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Post by Robert Hurst » 11 Mar 2003 15:41

Hi

IAR 15

Possessing little more than a configurational similarity to the preceding single-seat fighters of Carafoli design, the IAR 15 flew for the first time late in 1933. It was powered by a 600 hp Gnome-Rhone 9Krse nine-cylinder air-cooled radial and carried an armament of two 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Vickers machine guns.

The structural design followed that of the IAR 14. It had a welded steel-tube fuselage covered by duralumin sheet forward and fabric aft, this being mated with a three-piece wing with two duralumin spars, pine and plywood ribs and duralumin sheet skinning for the centre section with fabric covering for the outer panels.

A series of five IAR 15s was ordered for the Aeronautica Militara, these differing from the prototype primarily in having three-bladed metal propellers in place of the two-bladed wooden unit. The speed capability of the IAR 15 was adjudged excellent and it established a national altitude record of 11,631 m (38,160 ft) in 1935.

It was considered inferior to the PZL P.11b(f), however, on the score of manoeurability.

Data

Maximum speed: 375 km/h (233 mph) at 4,000 m (13,125 ft), 370 km/h (230 mph) at 5,000 m (16, 405 ft); Climb to 5,000 m (16,405 ft) 8.0 min
Range: 600 km (373 mls)
Weight (empty): 1,215 kg (2,678 lb)
Weight (loaded): 1,650 kg (3,637 lb)
Span: 11.00 m (36 ft 1 in)
Length: 7.76 m (25 ft 5 1/2 in)
Height: 2.70 m (8 ft 10 1/4 in)
Wing area: 19.00 sq m (204.52 sq ft)

IAR 16

Although evolved in parallel with the IAR 15, the IAR 16 which flew for the first time in 1934, was the first of Carafoli's fighters to feature an all-metal structure, this having plywood, fabric and duralumin skinning. It was powered by a 560 hp Bristol Mercury IVS.2 nine-cylinder air-cooled radial enclosed by a Townend ring and carried an armament of two 7.7 mm (0,303 in) Vickers guns.

The IAR 16 was not developed furthwer than a single prototype, bringing to an end Romanian fighter design for several years.

Data

Maximum speed: 342 km/h (212 mph) at 5,000 m (16,405 ft); time to 5,000 m (16,405 ft) 6.5 min
Weight (empty): 1,224 kg (2,698 lb)
Weight (loaded): 1,650 kg (3,637 lb)
Span: 11.70 m (38 ft 4 2/3 in)
Length: 7.37 m (24 ft 2 1/8 in)
Height: 2.80 m (9 ft 2 1/4 in)
Wing area: 20.30 sq m (218.5 sq ft)

The above text and photos were taken frrom "The Complete Book of Fighters", by William Green.

Regards

Bob
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Post by Robert Hurst » 11 Mar 2003 16:05

Hi

SET XV

In an attempt to meet a requirement formulated by the Aeronautica Militara for a single-seat fighter to succeed the IAR-built Dewoitine D.27, in 1934 the Fabrica de Avione of the Societatea pentru exploatari technice, S.E.T (Technical Development Society) in Bucharest built the S.E.T XV to the designs of ing Grigore C Zamfirescu. One static test specimen and one flying prototype were completed, the latter commencing flight evaluation in 1934.

The S.E.T XV was a sesquiplane of all-metal construction with fabric skinning. Powered by a 500 hp Gnone-Rhone 9Krds nine-cylinder air-cooled radial, it carried an armament of two 7.7 mm (0.303 in ) machine guns. The S.E.T XV competed with the IAR 15 for an order from the Aeronautica Militara, but its sesquiplane configuraton was considered passe by the service, which opted for the Polish PZL P.11b.

The prototype S.E.T XV was flown for several months by an experimental squadron at Pipera before bing scrapped.

Data

Maximum speed 340 km/h (211 mph) at 4,000 m (13,125 ft); Time to 5,000 m (16,405 ft) 8.42 min
Weight (empty): 1,150 kg (2,535 ft)
Weight (loaded): 1,550 kg (3,417 lb)
Span: 9.40 m (30 10 in)
Length: 7.00 m (22 ft 11 2/3 in)
Height: 3.35 m (10 11 7/8 in)
Wing area: 18.65 sq m (200.75 sq ft).

The above text and phot were taken from "The Complete Book of Fighters", by William Green.

Regards

Bob
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Robert Hurst
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Post by Robert Hurst » 11 Mar 2003 16:11

Hi

Some photos of the IAR 80 & 81 Series Aircraft.

The photos were taken from "The Complete Book of Fighters", by William Green.


Regards

Bob
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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 12 Mar 2003 01:39

According to Axworthy a interim order for 20 IAR 14's was placed in June 1934, off which an uncertain number were delivered. None were in service by the outbreak of war.

Andy

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 15 Mar 2003 21:57

Andy H wrote:According to Axworthy a interim order for 20 IAR 14's was placed in June 1934, off which an uncertain number were delivered. None were in service by the outbreak of war.

Andy
Actually 20 were delivered and were in use as fighter trainers. :D

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Post by Andy H » 16 Mar 2003 03:06

I stand corrected Victor-Thanks

Andy

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 16 Mar 2003 09:31

Savantu wrote: In April of 1941 the Romanians were firmly in the German sphere, and as a result the Germans released more of the FN guns for their use. These were quickly incorporated into the design, and the resulting 80A model finally mounted the original design compliment of six guns. The design also added armored glass to the windscreen, armor to the seat-back, and a new Goerz gunsight.
Actually the decision to put armor plates on the IAR-80 (no. 1-50) was taken on 25 June, after three days of war, as experience showed it was necessary. The decision was also applied to the Hurricanes.

On the IAR-80A a new higher seat was installed, which already had armor mounted on it.

The Goerz gun sight, which had equipped the aircraft from the 21-50 series (IAR-80), was replaced by the Telerefelex gun sight made under license by PREROM and IOR.
Savantu wrote: They also took this opportunity to mount the newer 1025hp K14-1000A engine.
Actually the IAR K14 IV c32 1000A equipped the IAR-80. On the IAR-80A was installed the IAR K14 IV c32 1000A1 which was not more powerful (you mentioned 1025 HP), but lighter. Thus, to balance the aircraft, the length of the fuselage was increased with 70 mm.
Savantu wrote: Dimensions: span 9.09m (29ft 9 3/4in)
length 9.22m (30ft 11 7/8in)
height 3.82m (12ft 6 3/4 in)
Weights: empty 1617kg (3,565lbs)
max loaded 2248kg (4,957lbs)
Wing Area: 17m2 (183ft2)
Wing Loading: 132.35kg/m2 (27.1lbs/ft2)
Performance: maximum speed 510km/h (316mph) at 4000m
service ceiling 9500m (31,200ft)
range 1150km (715miles)
Actually,
Wingspan: 10.52 m
Length: 8.97 m
Height: 3.525 m
Weight: 2110kg(empty) and 2720 kg (max)
Wing area: 16 m2
Max speed at 5000 m: 485 km/h
Service ceiling: 10500 m
Range: 730 km
Savantu wrote: Dimensions: span 9.09m (29ft 9 3/4in)
length 9.22m (30ft 11 7/8in)
height 3.82m (12ft 6 3/4 in)
Weights: empty 2200kg (4,850lbs)
max loaded 2980kg (6,570lbs)
Wing Area: 17m2 (183ft2)
Wing Loading: 132.35kg/m2 (27.1lbs/ft2)
Performance: maximum speed 550km/h at 7000m (342mph at 22,965ft)
service ceiling 9500m (31,200ft)
Armament: two 20mm MG151/20 and four 7.92mm FN mounted in the inner portion of the wing
Actually,
Wingspan: 11 m
Length: 8.97 m
Height: 3.535 m
Weight: 2200kg(empty) and 2900 kg (max)
Wing area: 16.5 m2
Max speed at 5000 m: 485 km/h Many IAR-80 pilots would have been alive today if the speed was 550 km/h at 7000 m.
Service ceiling: 10500 m
Weapons: two 20mm cannons, but only two 7.92mm machine-guns, not four
Savantu wrote: The plan was to approach at low altitude in order to avoid radar detection and thus minimize defensive reaction, but it backfired for a number of reasons. The planes were in fact met by 59 IAR.80's and 81's of the latest types, which were identified by the US crews as Fw 190's. The IAR's shot down an astonishing twenty of the B-24's for the loss of only one plane and three damaged
There were only 18 IAR-80Bs and Cs, not 59! They claimed 9 B-24s shot down and damaged others. Two IARs were lost and two were damaged.
Savantu wrote: Throughout the second half of 1943 units on the Soviet front started exchanging their older IAR models and receiving 109's in exchange. Many of the older planes were sent to units on the Black Sea where they served as convoy escorts, replacing the P.11's and P.24's that had previously been used in this secondary role.
Actually in 1943, the only unit that converted from the IAR-80 to the Bf-109G was the 9th Fighter Group, which had never been on the Eastern Front before. The P.11s and P.24s were not used as convoy escots. The Hurricanes and He-112Bs were.
Savantu wrote: Raids began again on the 5th of April 1944, when a high altitude raid by the 15th AF's B-24's took place
Actually it was 4 April 1944.
Savantu wrote: Although the IAR.80 was no match for the US escorts, this was addressed by attacking the escorts in Grupul 7's Bf 109's, while the IAR's of Grupul 6 (back home for their refit) and 2 continued on to attack the bombers
Actually the 6th Fighter Group was home from early 1943 (almost a year and a half). You forgot about the 1st Fighter Group and occasionally the 5th FG.
Savantu wrote: In all the attack lost twenty-three of it's planes, and once again the FARR handed the USAAF a 30% loss rate.

Actually this count includes Luftwaffe kills not only ARR ones. The Axis claimed 51 kills that day. The USAAF claimed 33 and 6 probable, but actually scored 14, most of them unarmed training aircraft.
Savantu wrote: Excellent info about Romanian ww2 fighters :

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... iar80.html
If you want a good reliable source on the IAR-80, try the book Vanatorul IAR-80: Istoria unui erou necunoscut by Dan Antoniu and George Cicos, Modelism, 2000

It is the only source based on actual documents. The rest are second hand info. :wink:

Try this link: http://www.arr.go.ro/iar80.htm. It is based on info from this book.

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savantu
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Post by savantu » 16 Mar 2003 18:03

Victor:

Nu puteai sa nu te contrazici un roman de'al tau??

:D :D

PS: Mersi pt corectari.Nu sunt prea mare fan al nostru,dar am crezut ca ar fi bine sa ne laudam cu ce avem si am folosit ce am putut gasi pe net in 5 minute.

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Robert Hurst
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Goerz reflector gunsight

Post by Robert Hurst » 19 Mar 2003 12:03

Hi Savantu & Victor

Could either of you guys give me any info about the type of Goerz reflector gunsight as used on the early IAR 80.

The reason why I am interested in this info, is because at the time of the Munich crisis in 1938, the Barr & Stroud Company, of Glasgow, Scotland were asked by the British Air Staff, to find an overseas company to manufacture their GM2 (RAF Mk II) reflector gunsight under licence.

The company that was chosen for this work was C.P. Goerz of Vienna. A full set of drawings plus an example of the Mk II sight were sent to Vienna, and a production contract was agreed between a Herr Neumann, signing on behalf of Goerz, and an Air Ministry representative.

By the time of the Anschluss between Germany and Austria, 55 sights had been delivered. Air Ministry fears of cancellation proved to be unfounded, Goerz being only to happy to honour the contract. In total 700 sights known as GM2 Mk III being delivered before the outbreak of war.

What I would like to know is whether the Goerz sights used on the early version of the IAR 80 were based on the British design drawings or whether they were an original Goerz design.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Bob

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 29 Mar 2003 13:40

Sorry. I have no idea what the model was. I think there are some pictures, if you are interested.

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