Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello
The Bf 109 Emil seems to have been used as a fightet bomber in the Mediterranean. I was wondering why this practice was not more extensive in the war considering how many of these birds were made. Any ideas?
The Bf 109 Emil seems to have been used as a fightet bomber in the Mediterranean. I was wondering why this practice was not more extensive in the war considering how many of these birds were made. Any ideas?
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Really? All of the references and monographs on the Bf 109 speak extensively about its employment as a Jagdbomber right from October 1940 against cross-Channel targets in England, in Russia with Schlachtgeschwader 1 from May 42 to Oct 43, and then on all fronts with elements of the SG units from Oct 43 to the end of the war. Even the Jagdgeschwader in the East and West had a Jabostaffel at one time or another.
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Sorry Larry I guess I should have specified - I was inquiring about them being used in a dive bombing role, which I believe was occasionally the case in the Mediterranean.
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
If you mean an 8,000 to 10,000 foot approach and then tipping over into a 60º plunging dive like a Stuka, then I don't know but would probably guess not due to the 109's lack of air brakes, which seem to have been a de rigour component of all dive bombers. The 109 as a Jabo would come in low and fast on the target, release the bomb(s) at near-treetop level and then depart the area as quickly as possible before gaining altitude. I think use of the 109 as a dive bomber might have been pretty rare, unless a few were retrofitted for this purpose as an experiment.
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Good info. Thanks.
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello to all ; a little delay on this but something at least......................................
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Sources: in the pictures.
Cheers. Raúl M .
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Sources: in the pictures.
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain: The Tip and Run Campaign 1942-43. Chris Goss
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- Members of the 3./Erp.Gr. 210 in Denain, behind them a Bf-109 E (Jabo) - summer of 1940
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/d0/07/86d007e099e80f3809d3630d68bb62eb.jpg - image039.jpg (31.55 KiB) Viewed 10102 times
- Members of the 3./Erp.Gr. 210 in Denain, behind them a Bf-109 E (Jabo) - summer of 1940
- Eross McCloud
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello Imad,
I would guess that the practice wasn't common in other areas was due to the fact that it didn't cause as much damage as other traditional bombers.
Eross
I would guess that the practice wasn't common in other areas was due to the fact that it didn't cause as much damage as other traditional bombers.
Eross
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
At least initially they were not as much opposed as traditional bombers, RAF was more or less surprised to get bombed by fighters and forced them to change their tactics re incoming fighter raids
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello to all ; a little more.....................................
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Source: in the picture.
Cheers. Raúl M .
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Source: in the picture.
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- Bf 109 Emil of the 3./ErpGr 210 in Denain during the summer of 1940........................................................
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xA7uazN217I/VbejXRrsPFI/AAAAAAAAToI/DobFzVGOivI/s1600/1Epr210Emil.jpg - image006.jpg (30 KiB) Viewed 9770 times
- Bf 109 Emil of the 3./ErpGr 210 in Denain during the summer of 1940........................................................
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello to all ; a little more.....................................
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Source: Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain: The Tip and Run Campaign 1942-43. Escrito por Chris Goss.
Cheers. Raúl M .
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Source: Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain: The Tip and Run Campaign 1942-43. Escrito por Chris Goss.
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- image005.jpg (15.35 KiB) Viewed 9627 times
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- Alternative, a rack for bombs of 50 kg .........................
- image050.jpg (35.58 KiB) Viewed 9627 times
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Epr 210 was Erprobungsgruppe 210 (Test Wing 210) originally to test the new Me210 but ended up developing ground attack techniques for the Me109 and Me110. They did not always carry out dive attacks. Some of the bigger successes were in low level raids - but the losses were much higher.
It was possible to learn how to dive bomb using a single seat fighter. RAF fighter units were trained in this technique for the attacks on the the V1 Crossbow sites. Pierre Closterman wrote that, after training his squadron could put all bombs in a 100m x 100m area.
It was possible to learn how to dive bomb using a single seat fighter. RAF fighter units were trained in this technique for the attacks on the the V1 Crossbow sites. Pierre Closterman wrote that, after training his squadron could put all bombs in a 100m x 100m area.
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello to all ; a little more......................................
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Sources: in the picture.
Cheers. Raúl M .
The Bf 109 E as Jabo.
Sources: in the picture.
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- Bf-109 E-4/B Black 1 of the 2. / JG 51, whose Staffelkapitän was the Oblt. Victor Mölders (shot down on October 7, 1940), being prepared for a Jabo mission (note the ventral rack)............................................
Kagero Miniatury Lotnicze 029 - JG 51. - image031.jpg (31.11 KiB) Viewed 9483 times
- Bf-109 E-4/B Black 1 of the 2. / JG 51, whose Staffelkapitän was the Oblt. Victor Mölders (shot down on October 7, 1940), being prepared for a Jabo mission (note the ventral rack)............................................
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
During most of the BoB, Bf 109E fighter bombers were flown by the 3rd Staffel of ErprGr 210 (the first and second flew Bf 110s), with about 9-10 Bf 109E4/Bs as of mid-August, and secondly by II (Schl.)/LG 2 (Schl. stands for Schlachtflieger or ground attack aircraft). This unit had been equipped with Hs 123 biplanes until July/August, then converted to bomb-carrying Bf 109E-4/Bs and E-7s. Strength 39 aircraft (31 serviceable) as of 13 Aug.
Together these units flew 428 bombing missions in September, of which 264 against London.
Then at the end of September several Jagdgeschwader received orders to designate one Staffel per Gruppe as fighter bombers. At least Part of these received a crash course in (dive) bombing of about a week from instructors of ErproGr 210 (Denain airfield).
The page below (from J. Prien et al., Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Volume 4/I) shows from what dates these Staffel carried out bombing missions. In general they were escorted by the two other Staffel of their Gruppe. As also indicated below, 2633 such missions were flown against London in the course of October, of which 1575 (60%) actually dropped their bombs on London, 973 bombed alternative targets, 54 aborted and the rest was shot down or forced to jettison before reaching the target. Losses were relatively light, only 29 Jabos were lost (1.1%).
In general pilots were not assigned any specific targets - and so did not need to dive bomb - and it would seem that there was little point to these indiscriminate attacks other than ensuring that the population and the defenders of London could not relax during the daytime.
Together these units flew 428 bombing missions in September, of which 264 against London.
Then at the end of September several Jagdgeschwader received orders to designate one Staffel per Gruppe as fighter bombers. At least Part of these received a crash course in (dive) bombing of about a week from instructors of ErproGr 210 (Denain airfield).
The page below (from J. Prien et al., Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Volume 4/I) shows from what dates these Staffel carried out bombing missions. In general they were escorted by the two other Staffel of their Gruppe. As also indicated below, 2633 such missions were flown against London in the course of October, of which 1575 (60%) actually dropped their bombs on London, 973 bombed alternative targets, 54 aborted and the rest was shot down or forced to jettison before reaching the target. Losses were relatively light, only 29 Jabos were lost (1.1%).
In general pilots were not assigned any specific targets - and so did not need to dive bomb - and it would seem that there was little point to these indiscriminate attacks other than ensuring that the population and the defenders of London could not relax during the daytime.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Thanks for that info . Cheers. Raúl M .
Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber
Hello to all ; a little delay on this but something at least......................................
The Bf 109 E as Jabo - Liesendahl Process.
Sources: What was the impact of the Luftwaffe's Tip and Run Bombing Attacks. Royal Air Force Historical Society. Journal 29.
Le Fana de l'Aviation Hors Serie - Jabo sur La Manche.
Cheers. Raúl M .
The Bf 109 E as Jabo - Liesendahl Process.
Sources: What was the impact of the Luftwaffe's Tip and Run Bombing Attacks. Royal Air Force Historical Society. Journal 29.
Le Fana de l'Aviation Hors Serie - Jabo sur La Manche.
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- Mechanics working on the ventral support of a Bf-109 of the 13. (Jabo) / JG 2 (as of April 1942 10./ JG 2) .........................................................
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