Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

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Imad
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Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Imad » 30 Jan 2013 21:21

Hello

The Bf 109 Emil seems to have been used as a fightet bomber in the Mediterranean. I was wondering why this practice was not more extensive in the war considering how many of these birds were made. Any ideas?

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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Larry D. » 31 Jan 2013 00:51

Really? All of the references and monographs on the Bf 109 speak extensively about its employment as a Jagdbomber right from October 1940 against cross-Channel targets in England, in Russia with Schlachtgeschwader 1 from May 42 to Oct 43, and then on all fronts with elements of the SG units from Oct 43 to the end of the war. Even the Jagdgeschwader in the East and West had a Jabostaffel at one time or another.

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Imad
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Imad » 31 Jan 2013 01:15

Sorry Larry I guess I should have specified - I was inquiring about them being used in a dive bombing role, which I believe was occasionally the case in the Mediterranean.

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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Larry D. » 31 Jan 2013 01:51

If you mean an 8,000 to 10,000 foot approach and then tipping over into a 60º plunging dive like a Stuka, then I don't know but would probably guess not due to the 109's lack of air brakes, which seem to have been a de rigour component of all dive bombers. The 109 as a Jabo would come in low and fast on the target, release the bomb(s) at near-treetop level and then depart the area as quickly as possible before gaining altitude. I think use of the 109 as a dive bomber might have been pretty rare, unless a few were retrofitted for this purpose as an experiment.

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Imad
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Imad » 31 Jan 2013 02:34

Good info. Thanks.

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tigre
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 17 Jan 2018 14:32

Hello to all :D; a little delay on this but something at least......................................

The Bf 109 E as Jabo.

Sources: in the pictures.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Eross McCloud
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Eross McCloud » 18 Jan 2018 17:56

Hello Imad,
I would guess that the practice wasn't common in other areas was due to the fact that it didn't cause as much damage as other traditional bombers.

Eross

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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Denniss » 20 Jan 2018 00:02

At least initially they were not as much opposed as traditional bombers, RAF was more or less surprised to get bombed by fighters and forced them to change their tactics re incoming fighter raids

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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 27 Jan 2018 00:06

Hello to all :D; a little more.....................................

The Bf 109 E as Jabo.

Source: in the picture.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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tigre
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 07 Feb 2018 22:18

Hello to all :D; a little more.....................................

The Bf 109 E as Jabo.

Source: Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain: The Tip and Run Campaign 1942-43. Escrito por Chris Goss.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Sheldrake
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Sheldrake » 08 Feb 2018 13:46

Epr 210 was Erprobungsgruppe 210 (Test Wing 210) originally to test the new Me210 but ended up developing ground attack techniques for the Me109 and Me110. They did not always carry out dive attacks. Some of the bigger successes were in low level raids - but the losses were much higher.

It was possible to learn how to dive bomb using a single seat fighter. RAF fighter units were trained in this technique for the attacks on the the V1 Crossbow sites. Pierre Closterman wrote that, after training his squadron could put all bombs in a 100m x 100m area.

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tigre
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 21 Feb 2018 22:49

Hello to all :D; a little more......................................

The Bf 109 E as Jabo.

Sources: in the picture.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by Knouterer » 23 Feb 2018 15:07

During most of the BoB, Bf 109E fighter bombers were flown by the 3rd Staffel of ErprGr 210 (the first and second flew Bf 110s), with about 9-10 Bf 109E4/Bs as of mid-August, and secondly by II (Schl.)/LG 2 (Schl. stands for Schlachtflieger or ground attack aircraft). This unit had been equipped with Hs 123 biplanes until July/August, then converted to bomb-carrying Bf 109E-4/Bs and E-7s. Strength 39 aircraft (31 serviceable) as of 13 Aug.
Together these units flew 428 bombing missions in September, of which 264 against London.

Then at the end of September several Jagdgeschwader received orders to designate one Staffel per Gruppe as fighter bombers. At least Part of these received a crash course in (dive) bombing of about a week from instructors of ErproGr 210 (Denain airfield).

The page below (from J. Prien et al., Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Volume 4/I) shows from what dates these Staffel carried out bombing missions. In general they were escorted by the two other Staffel of their Gruppe. As also indicated below, 2633 such missions were flown against London in the course of October, of which 1575 (60%) actually dropped their bombs on London, 973 bombed alternative targets, 54 aborted and the rest was shot down or forced to jettison before reaching the target. Losses were relatively light, only 29 Jabos were lost (1.1%).

In general pilots were not assigned any specific targets - and so did not need to dive bomb - and it would seem that there was little point to these indiscriminate attacks other than ensuring that the population and the defenders of London could not relax during the daytime.
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tigre
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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 03 Mar 2018 00:01

Thanks for that info :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Bf 109 E as fighter bomber

Post by tigre » 07 Mar 2018 22:30

Hello to all :D; a little delay on this but something at least......................................

The Bf 109 E as Jabo - Liesendahl Process.

Sources: What was the impact of the Luftwaffe's Tip and Run Bombing Attacks. Royal Air Force Historical Society. Journal 29.
Le Fana de l'Aviation Hors Serie - Jabo sur La Manche.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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