Question Do 317B alternative layout

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thaddeus_c
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Question Do 317B alternative layout

Post by thaddeus_c » 30 Mar 2014 19:54

question about Do 317B proposed variant/development of Do 217.

would a push-pull design using the DB-610 "power system" used on the He 177 even be feasible?

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Bader's Briar
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Re: Question Do 317B alternative layout

Post by Bader's Briar » 19 Apr 2014 15:53

Dear thaddeus_c:

Bader's Briar here - I've included a link to the ONLY viewable sideview drawing of the proposed Do 317B I could find on the 'Net, and it sure LOOKS like it was using a pair of the 1.5 metric ton-in-weight-apiece DB 610 "power system" mills for its power, possibly as a "Bomber B" competitor.

The He 177A Greif basically had ITS problems with the DB 606 "welded-together engines" (as Goering dubbed them on August 13. 1942) from the deficiently designed nacelles they'd been shoved into. Basically, if you get a good look at THIS linked photo from Wikipedia, note that the "power system" installation of a DB 606 OR 610 for the He 177A was placed SO far back in the "nacelle", that the second cylinder's exhaust header is basically EVEN WITH THE LEADING EDGE of the wing. Couple that with numerous accounts of the difficulty of even servicing the 3,300 lb+ apiece monstrosities, and significant occurences of neglectfulness towards maintenance of such an overly massive aviation powerplant, and it's no wonder they caught fire so often!

As far as is known, NONE of the "welded-together engines" from Daimler-Benz...the DB 606, DB 610, or even the twinned-up DB 603s, known as the "DB 613", first conceived of in March 1940 from two of the Reich's largest displacement inverted V12 mills (at 44.52 litres/2,717 cubic inches apiece themselves) placed into frontline service...were EVER used for a twin-prop "center-line thrust" design concept, except possibly for the paper-only Dornier Do 214 monster flying boat, which was meant to use EIGHT of the "DB 613" power-system powerplants (That's SIXTEEN DB 603s-worth of "power", to power a huuuge flying boat... 8O ).

Dornier DID make the Do 26 four-engined flying boat with such a twin "push-pull" arrangement, but THAT design used a quartet of the heavy Junkers Jumo 205 two-stroke, opposed-piston DIESEL aviation mills in it, and NOT the "welded-together engines" that troubled the "Gruesome Griffin" He 177A throughout much of its frontline service.

Hope these tidbits are of SOME help...

Yours Sincerely,

Bader's Briar

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Cantankerous
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Re: Question Do 317B alternative layout

Post by Cantankerous » 12 Sep 2023 02:44

Bader's Briar wrote:
19 Apr 2014 15:53
Dear thaddeus_c:

Bader's Briar here - I've included a link to the ONLY viewable sideview drawing of the proposed Do 317B I could find on the 'Net, and it sure LOOKS like it was using a pair of the 1.5 metric ton-in-weight-apiece DB 610 "power system" mills for its power, possibly as a "Bomber B" competitor.

The He 177A Greif basically had ITS problems with the DB 606 "welded-together engines" (as Goering dubbed them on August 13. 1942) from the deficiently designed nacelles they'd been shoved into. Basically, if you get a good look at THIS linked photo from Wikipedia, note that the "power system" installation of a DB 606 OR 610 for the He 177A was placed SO far back in the "nacelle", that the second cylinder's exhaust header is basically EVEN WITH THE LEADING EDGE of the wing. Couple that with numerous accounts of the difficulty of even servicing the 3,300 lb+ apiece monstrosities, and significant occurences of neglectfulness towards maintenance of such an overly massive aviation powerplant, and it's no wonder they caught fire so often!

As far as is known, NONE of the "welded-together engines" from Daimler-Benz...the DB 606, DB 610, or even the twinned-up DB 603s, known as the "DB 613", first conceived of in March 1940 from two of the Reich's largest displacement inverted V12 mills (at 44.52 litres/2,717 cubic inches apiece themselves) placed into frontline service...were EVER used for a twin-prop "center-line thrust" design concept, except possibly for the paper-only Dornier Do 214 monster flying boat, which was meant to use EIGHT of the "DB 613" power-system powerplants (That's SIXTEEN DB 603s-worth of "power", to power a huuuge flying boat... 8O ).

Dornier DID make the Do 26 four-engined flying boat with such a twin "push-pull" arrangement, but THAT design used a quartet of the heavy Junkers Jumo 205 two-stroke, opposed-piston DIESEL aviation mills in it, and NOT the "welded-together engines" that troubled the "Gruesome Griffin" He 177A throughout much of its frontline service.

Hope these tidbits are of SOME help...

Yours Sincerely,

Bader's Briar
The history of design of the Dornier Do 317 is somewhat more complex than some people think. The initial Do 317 designs proposed in 1940 had rectangular vertical stabilizers and powerplants investigated for those designs were the DB 604, Jumo 222, and BMW 801. By early 1941, the Do 317 design was revised to feature triangular vertical stabilizers, creating the Do 317A with two DB 603s that was to be the baseline Do 317 production version, and the Do 317B that differed in having a bigger wingspan and two DB 610s was submitted to the RLM in early January 1942 (the book Dornier Do 217-317-417: Eine luftfahrtgeschichtliche Dokumentation and the bookazine Luftwaffe: Secret Bombers Of The Third Reich by Dan Sharp mention the dimensions for the Do 317B but don't include a Dornier company drawing for the Do 317B due to limitations of space).

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