Luftwaffe napalm?

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stg 44
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Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby stg 44 » 22 Jan 2017 21:18

I have seen a number of references to incendiary bombs used by the Luftwaffe in Spain, Poland, and Operation Barbarossa, but nothing after that; even Glantz made a reference to a Soviet report about LW 'phosphor' bombs and adds the commentary in brackets that it was napalm. What did the LW use as a bomb that was used as an incendiary in these operations and why do references to it stop in 1941? I don't think it is the same think as the 250kg 'Flammbombe' that was withdrawn in 1940-41 during the Blitz as an incendiary against British cities (it malfunctioned and wouldn't ignite properly). Any and all information would be appreciated.
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/g ... 941.37290/
https://books.google.com/books?id=X4yHC ... lm&f=false

http://www.ww2f.com/topic/3193-rafluftw ... ary-bombs/
Lastly came the Phosphorbrandbombe C50A, C50B and C250A which contained a viscous mixture of oil, rubber and phosphorous. The C250A was even more effective, the filling consisting of petroleum, polystyrene and Phosphorous.

Sources : MvBean/Hogben, 'Bombs Gone' and Ramsey, 'The Blitz Then & Now : Vol. 1' .

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Grzesio
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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby Grzesio » 23 Jan 2017 15:05

As far as larger German incendiary bombs are concerned, there were following types:
Brand C - filled with liquid incendiary substance plus some glass ampoules with phosphor, with a very small HE charge (just 30 g in the 50 A variant, 190 g in 250 A); there were Brand C 50 A, later superseded by simplified Brand C 50 B, as well as Brand C 250 A.
Flam C - bombs filled with mixture of 30% gasoline and 70% oil, HE charge was larger than in Brand C - 1 kg TNT in the C 250, 0,65 kg in the C 250 C; there were Flam C 250, simplified Flam C 250 C and Flam C 500 C.
Streubrand 500 - an airburst bomb filled with 1400 incendiary cans with chemical filling in 20% solution of spirit;
Sprengbrand 50 - a combined demolition/incendiary bomb, carrying 6 kg HE in the nose and 73 incendiary electron elements of two sizes. Incendiary elements were expelled after impact, followed by HE ignition 3-4 s later.

Smaller bomblets were carried in cluster canisters of the AB family, as well as the ABB 500.

As you can see, all "normal" incendiary bombs can be called napalm ones.
A Juni 1942 edition of the L.Dv. 8/g 4 manual presents Flam C 250 (I'd say A) and Flam C 500 bombs only, on the other hand all types are apparently included in a late war edition of the L.Dv. 4200, shown in beige colour introduced in July 1942.

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stg 44
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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby stg 44 » 23 Jan 2017 15:14

Grzesio wrote:As far as larger German incendiary bombs are concerned, there were following types:
Brand C - filled with liquid incendiary substance plus some glass ampoules with phosphor, with a very small HE charge (just 30 g in the 50 A variant, 190 g in 250 A); there were Brand C 50 A, later superseded by simplified Brand C 50 B, as well as Brand C 250 A.
Flam C - bombs filled with mixture of 30% gasoline and 70% oil, HE charge was larger than in Brand C - 1 kg TNT in the C 250, 0,65 kg in the C 250 C; there were Flam C 250, simplified Flam C 250 C and Flam C 500 C.
Streubrand 500 - an airburst bomb filled with 1400 incendiary cans with chemical filling in 20% solution of spirit;
Sprengbrand 50 - a combined demolition/incendiary bomb, carrying 6 kg HE in the nose and 73 incendiary electron elements of two sizes. Incendiary elements were expelled after impact, followed by HE ignition 3-4 s later.

Smaller bomblets were carried in cluster canisters of the AB family, as well as the ABB 500.

As you can see, all "normal" incendiary bombs can be called napalm ones.
A Juni 1942 edition of the L.Dv. 8/g 4 manual presents Flam C 250 (I'd say A) and Flam C 500 bombs only, on the other hand all types are apparently included in a late war edition of the L.Dv. 4200, shown in beige colour introduced in July 1942.

Were they withdrawn later in the war (1943-45)? I can't seem to find references to the LW using them in the late war period, which may be because of the fuel shortages.

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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby thaddeus_c » 24 Jan 2017 02:52

stg 44 wrote:Were they withdrawn later in the war (1943-45)? I can't seem to find references to the LW using them in the late war period, which may be because of the fuel shortages.


that was my question ...

also they were maybe not best judge of effectiveness? the Butterfly bombs were very effective but they ceased using them over GB?

where are you speculating their use?

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stg 44
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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby stg 44 » 24 Jan 2017 04:07

thaddeus_c wrote:
stg 44 wrote:Were they withdrawn later in the war (1943-45)? I can't seem to find references to the LW using them in the late war period, which may be because of the fuel shortages.


that was my question ...

also they were maybe not best judge of effectiveness? the Butterfly bombs were very effective but they ceased using them over GB?

where are you speculating their use?

I've seen butterfly and other cluster munitions used by the Germans increasingly from 1943 on, while the last reference to incendiary munitions I've seen is during 2nd Kharkov.

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Grzesio
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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby Grzesio » 24 Jan 2017 12:35

also they were maybe not best judge of effectiveness?

Splash of the Brand C 50 covered area of 15 m in diameter, the Brand C 250 - 30 to 40 m. The incendiary substance was sticky, burned for 10-20 minutes and was hard to extinguish due to presence of phosphor. They were intended for use against targets that could be destroyed or damaged by fire.
Flam C 250 covered area of 15-20 m in diameter and burned for 10 s, Flam C 500 covered 30-40 m and burned for 10-15 s. They were intended for attacking living targets, combat positions, barracks, industrial buildings with light roofing as well as other inflammable targets.

Maybe later in the war there were just more effective bomb types for these purposes - e.g. cluster bombs, covering larger area? On the other hand, Brand C bombs offered penetration comparable with class III demolition bombs of respective weight, as opposed to cluster bombs.

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stg 44
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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby stg 44 » 25 Jan 2017 19:27

Grzesio wrote:
also they were maybe not best judge of effectiveness?

Splash of the Brand C 50 covered area of 15 m in diameter, the Brand C 250 - 30 to 40 m. The incendiary substance was sticky, burned for 10-20 minutes and was hard to extinguish due to presence of phosphor. They were intended for use against targets that could be destroyed or damaged by fire.
Flam C 250 covered area of 15-20 m in diameter and burned for 10 s, Flam C 500 covered 30-40 m and burned for 10-15 s. They were intended for attacking living targets, combat positions, barracks, industrial buildings with light roofing as well as other inflammable targets.

Maybe later in the war there were just more effective bomb types for these purposes - e.g. cluster bombs, covering larger area? On the other hand, Brand C bombs offered penetration comparable with class III demolition bombs of respective weight, as opposed to cluster bombs.

Thanks for the info! Where are you getting the splash range from?

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Re: Luftwaffe napalm?

Postby Grzesio » 27 Jan 2017 15:47

They come from Munitionslexikon Band 3 by Karl Pawlas - and he apparently took them from the L.Dv. 4200.
I cannot remember if Wolgang Fleischer mentioned these values in his books on German bombs.


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