Luftwaffe strength by front

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Hiryu-
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Luftwaffe strength by front

#1

Post by Hiryu- » 25 Feb 2018, 18:50

Hello,
I'm trying to know how exactly were the Luftwaffe planes distributed by theater.
According to A. Price in "The Luftwaffe databook", in May 1944 there was 2,383 German planes on the Eastern front.
But according to this Russian source: http://rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/h ... /index.htm (table 15) there was 3,215 planes in the East. That's a substantial difference.
Price gives the total number of planes for May at 7,265, the Russian source at 7,064.
Who is right?

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stg 44
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#2

Post by stg 44 » 26 Feb 2018, 17:32

If there is one thing I've learned from reading about Soviet sources they tend not to be exceptionally accurate about German strength and losses. However in this case they might have been counting total aircraft vs. operational, perhaps counting Axis powers aircraft as one, or even counting army support aircraft as part of the Luftwaffe despite them generally not being counted as part of the Luftwaffe resources due to being detached to the Army. However looking at the source his 1941 numbers and 1941-42 numbers are quite off, so in this case I'd avoid using your Russian link for German strength and losses.


Hiryu-
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#3

Post by Hiryu- » 26 Feb 2018, 21:34

Hmm... Price's numbers are for the total number of aircrafts; he gives a separate set of numbers for the "serviceable" planes. So that's not the explanation. The Russian source also clearly states that these numbers are for the "Luftwaffe". And I seriously doubt that the Axis minors had ~900 planes in the East in May 1944.
I didn't know that the LW had "detached" aircrafts to the army... that's maybe the explanation, but then why Price doesn't adress this?

Larry D.
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#4

Post by Larry D. » 27 Feb 2018, 01:50

The author below has the opposing strength data for the East almost on a month-to-month basis from June 1941 to the end of the war. For 1 June 1944, see pages 208-13. Luftwaffe: 2,169 combat aircraft; Hungarians and Romanians: 265 combat aircraft. Of these, under Greim in the Center, 836; bombers under Meister in Poland and Romania, 681.

Hooten, E.R. War Over the Steppes: The Air Campaigns on the Eastern Front 1041-45. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 2016. ISBN: 978 1 4728 1562 0. Hb Dj 288p. Illus. Tables. End Notes. Appendices. Bibliography. Index.

L.

Hiryu-
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#5

Post by Hiryu- » 27 Feb 2018, 21:45

So the Russian/Soviet source is a fabrication?

Art
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#6

Post by Art » 27 Feb 2018, 22:36

Hiryu- wrote: But according to this Russian source: http://rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/h ... /index.htm (table 15) there was 3,215 planes in the East.
How does table 15 relate to table 14 in the first place? It's said very clearly that both tables give the numbers of LW aircraft without allies. IIRC Price ("the last year of Luftwaffe") has a table with breakdown of LW aircraft between fronts.

Hiryu-
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#7

Post by Hiryu- » 27 Feb 2018, 23:16

Art wrote:
Hiryu- wrote: But according to this Russian source: http://rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/h ... /index.htm (table 15) there was 3,215 planes in the East.
How does table 15 relate to table 14 in the first place? It's said very clearly that both tables give the numbers of LW aircraft without allies. IIRC Price ("the last year of Luftwaffe") has a table with breakdown of LW aircraft between fronts.
The two tables contradict each other, right?

Art
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#8

Post by Art » 27 Feb 2018, 23:46

Table 14: 1969 Luftwaffe planes on the Eastern Front in June 1944
Table 15: 3267 Luftwaffe planes on the Eastern Front in June 1944

So why the difference?

Larry D.
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#9

Post by Larry D. » 28 Feb 2018, 00:11

Here is a new study on this subject, all taken directly from the Generalstab d.Luftwaffe records at BA-MA Freiburg. See pages 7 to 19 in particular.

http://www.ww2.dk/Luftwaffe%20Research.html

L.

Hiryu-
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#10

Post by Hiryu- » 28 Feb 2018, 01:43

Wow, great link Larry!

Art
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#11

Post by Art » 28 Feb 2018, 08:49

Thanks for the link. So BTW in 1943 Luftwaffe dropped 300 000 tons of bombs on the Eastern Front vs 180 000 tons dropped by the Soviet air forces. Something I expected.

mars
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Re: Luftwaffe strength by front

#12

Post by mars » 28 Feb 2018, 15:49

Larry D. wrote:Here is a new study on this subject, all taken directly from the Generalstab d.Luftwaffe records at BA-MA Freiburg. See pages 7 to 19 in particular.

http://www.ww2.dk/Luftwaffe%20Research.html

L.
There is no Luftwaffe losses between 01/1944-05/1945 in this article

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