mystery junkers

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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Erich
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Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 19:47

Harry, anything is surely possible and faded memoires are quite common even with a 48 year old as myself.......
It is also interesting too that the Ju 390 looks like a longer wingspanned Ju 290. Fuselage is remarkably the same, just a modified wing with extra engines. So if there were any pics involved for identifiaction they easily could of been mis-interpreted.
Still think it was a Ju 290.....

E :wink:

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Fred
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Post by Fred » 13 May 2002 21:26

Junkers Ju 390:

The Ju 390 had a Ju 290 fuselage lengthened to 34,2m and a wingspan of 50,6m. An additional undercarriage leg was located beneath the central engine on each wing. Payload was 10 000kg, with a range of 8 000km at 330km/h at 2 000m altitude.

In april 1944 a production plan was prepared for the Ju 390s V2 to V7 plus twenty series aircraft. However the series was cancelled, with only the test aircraft programme remaining. In fact only the Ju 390 V2 was built. This was transferred to Rechlin-Lärz on 3 Feb. 1945 and presumably scrapped. Joachim Dressel and Manfred Griehl.


Fredrik.

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 21:50

Fred :

thanks, it seems typical of references, not agreeing together on what is known about an almost unknown aircraft. Maybe one day a good, concise small book on the Ju 290 and 390 together .....

E

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Antonio Pena
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mistery Junkers

Post by Antonio Pena » 13 May 2002 21:53

Sorry to all. Now I am reading "Die Grossen Dessauer" of Heinz Nowarra and there is no comment about the flight of the Ju-390 V2 to the States and of course if Griehl don't comment... But Gunston and Wood are very good historians of the Luftwaffe, so... we have a good scenario. May anyone investigate on the US Archives? or any knows about the War Records of FAGr 5?. I want to end this mistery with a solution.
Thanks to all

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Erich
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mysterious Ju 390 .....

Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 22:05

Antonio :

Was it FAgr 5 ? now you have got me more curious than ever. Yes, I now see that it was. Please correct what info I have guys......but this is all I have. Add to it please !

In January of 44 the Ju 390V-2 was delivered to Fernaufklärungs-Gruppe 5 at Mont de Marsan, south of Bordeux, for ops evaluations. It carried enough fuel for 32 hours. After some short flights the a/c lew from Mont de Marsan to a point some 12 miles from the US coast, north of New York, returning successfully to base.

Was this big a/c spotted by US a/c ?

E

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Erich
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FAGr 5

Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 22:23

Antonio and all:

FAGR 5 was developed into two staffeln and equipped with the Ju 290. Well at least we see a unit other than KG 200 fully equipped. The recon unit was a maritime unit providing recon duties and small transport in July 1, 1943 through ? IOt appears it flew the A-3 first until serviced by the other variants of A-5, and possibly one A-7 version. Trials were made with many types of seaborne radar sets and armament configurations. The last variant experimented with air to ground guided missiles such as the Hs 293 and the FX 1400 Fritz-X.
Maybe someone would like to add to this......please !.... from their book on the a/c by Monogram or Schiffer publication. FAGr 5's abzeichen was a beautiful pic of a dual masted sailing vessel on an ocean. blue background. I'll look for a pic.

E

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Antonio Pena
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mistery Junkers

Post by Antonio Pena » 13 May 2002 22:37

Hello, sorry to all, I don't remember the books that I have and now I am in my hands the "Junkers Grossflugzeuge" (Author Heinz Nowarra), but we have no more information about the V2, the V1 has his first flight the 21st october 1943, at Prag and was used in the Hs-293 development programm, and after in various tasks, but about the V2 only a note "in Rechlin the 3rd February 1945". We need to know the exact date of the first flight of this V2, and where was between that date and the 03.02.45.
Thats me curiosity now, and only two ways to know: the US Archives or the war diary of the FernAufklärungs Gruppe 5.
I am listening to all specially you Erich and Fred
Thanks

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Erich
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Ju 290 again.....

Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 22:45

Antonio, Fred and others.......

I see a little project for us now. I will check on F.A.Gr 5 as my interest is pretty high now. could you do this for us ?...or Fred or anyone else interested. for archival work for starts go to this:

http://www.stormbirds.com

click on the LWAG box on the lower left front page, then go to forums. From here you have a large question/answer board with many archiv's and experten that will help in any way they can. Two different archiv's from Germany and the ones in the US included, Luftwaffe operations and also one on types of a/c. If you get confused don't hesitate to ask. I have problems here as well. Have also already put in a question on the 12 o'clock high discussion board with my Luftwaffe interested friends. maybe if we work together we can post some very interesting materials on an almost unknown a/c and unit for Marcus. by the way the first of the code for F.A.Gr 5 I believe was KL+??

what do you guys think ?

E 8)

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Antonio Pena
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mistery junkers

Post by Antonio Pena » 13 May 2002 23:08

We will do the job.
Meantime the codes for the Ju-290 of FAGr 5 are 9V+BH, DH, EH, GH and GI,and I know that other Ju-290 with codes KR+LS, KR+IM, KR+LN, KR+LQ and KR+LL, etc., but no one with the code KL+..., and I can't see the code in the photos of the JU-390

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 23:12

No KL, ok my reference must not be too good. Will check further. Just sent you a private message concerning this little work project. going to further examine some other books.
Was this recent information from Grosse Flugzeuge ?

E

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Erich
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I can't see !!

Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 23:15

And I need glasses too ! yes I see it is KR+ LL and the A-7 given KR+LQ.
what camo colours would you guess we have here on both birds...... ? Dark se-green over RLM 76 blue ?

E

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 23:42

Thought the Ju 390 may have been overall Darkgreen black with an RLM 76 blue undersides. Please give a look at a neighboring Ju 290 of 2./FAGr 5

bottom of the page and a very brief article on it's rescue of a wethership crew.

http://home6.inet.tele.dk/ron/greenland/flight.htm

E

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 13 May 2002 23:59

On going search..... just in from one of my research friends.

Die Grossen Desauer is this the same book by Heinz Nowarra Antonio ? or similiar ?

the authors are listed as Karl Kössler and Günther Ott
covering the Ju 90, 290 and 390 with some missions reprots from F.A.Gr 5.
Aviatic Verlag, 1993 ISBN # 3-925505-25-3

E

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Fred
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Post by Fred » 14 May 2002 07:34

Junkers Ju 290:

The first four Ju 290s were converted Ju 90 B-1 transports, but they were soon followed by the Ju 290 A-1 series. First maiden flight on 16 July 1942, and of the basis of this transport aircraft the Ju 290 A-3 reconnaissance verson with more powerful BMW 801 engines was developed and attached to long-range recon. group (FAG) 5 from 1943.
Maximum flight duration was 18 hours.


more to come later ( when I got time) Fredrik.

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Fred
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Post by Fred » 14 May 2002 08:38

...more info. of the Ju 290:


At least one of the five long-range reconnaissance aircraft of the A-4 series was used for glide-bomb testing with the Hs 293 and Fritz X controlled by the Kehl radio-control system. The A-5 series, which followed at the end of 1943, had two ETC 200 bomb racks and an additional nose-mounted MG 151/20. Eleven A-5s were produced.

In early 1944, tests of the Ju 290 A-7 began. This aircraft had a stronger airframe, the glazed nose of the A-4 as standard, seven MG 151/20s and one MG 131, and movie cameras for sideways photography. A capability for carrying guided bombs was also planned. Max. speed of this verson with BMW 801 Ds was 438 km/h at 5000m altitude, and factory data gives the range as 5 800 km. Fourteen A-7s were built at the Junkers works.

A single Ju A-8(Works No.0212) was planned as a spec. Bomber, but it was in Prague-Rusin in May 1945, it could not be produced.

The Ju 290 A-9 had two hydraulically-operated turrets with four MG 151/20 machine guns and an improved tail-gun position with two 151/20s. It´s max. bomb load was 3000kg, and flight characteristics were simular to those of the A-7. About fifty Ju 290s were manufactured up to the end of production in the summer of 1944.

The Ju 290 B-1 series was intended to be massproduced with additional four-gun position at both nose and tail. Construction of the B-1 began in September 1943, but experience with FAG 5 showed that the defensive armament was inadequate. The prototype of the B-1 was inspected on 16 Oktober 1943, but the remote-controlled gun positions did not gain the approval of either the RLM or Erprobungskommando Garz. Work on the 290 B was eventually stopped on the 30 June 1944.
.Manfred Griehl and Manfred Dressel.



Fredrik.

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