Is Me 262 suck?

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Luthfi nasution
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Is Me 262 suck?

Post by Luthfi nasution » 02 Jun 2020 16:49

Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?

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stg 44
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Re: Is Me 262 suck?

Post by stg 44 » 02 Jun 2020 18:31

Luthfi nasution wrote:
02 Jun 2020 16:49
Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?
Per Eric Brown, a British test who flew just about every single airplane of the era and tested out the Me 262 post-war for the RAF and compared it to the Meteor he said the Me262 airframe was the best in the world of the era, but had inferior engines thanks to the material shortages Germany was facing by mid-war. With the Rolls Royce engines of the day he said it would have been the best fighter jet for years even after the war.
As a design it was excellent, but was hampered by material shortages and production problems.
If you want to see his take yourself check out his book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385135211/re ... TF8&btkr=1

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Sheldrake
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Re: Is Me 262 suck?

Post by Sheldrake » 02 Jun 2020 18:35

Luthfi nasution wrote:
02 Jun 2020 16:49
Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?
Yes. By comparison with the Mig 15 and F86 Sabre the Me262 was a poor jet fighter. But none of these were in production in 1945.

The Me262 was a revolutionary aircraft, the first jet fighter. It was designed as a bomber destroyer, despite Hitler's wishes for a bomber.

By comparison with piston engined fighters the Me262 was unmanouvreable,. if an Me262 pilot attempted to dogfight with a P51 or Spitfire it would lose, as both could out turn it in instantanous and sustained turns. It was slow to accelerate. Early generation jet engines were slow to pick up speed. In a dive the Me262 could quickly reach a critical speed which would prevent the pilot from pulling out. The Germans had problems with engine reliability. They lacked access to raw materials to make special allows. Engines had a life of around 25 hours.

But, once airborne with speed and altitude the Me262 could out run and out climb any contemporary piston-engine fighter. It could choose to engage or disengage at will. That gave it as big an advantage over piston engined aircraft as the spitfire or Me109 had over biplane fighters of the 1930s. It made them all obsolete. A burst from its four 30mm cannon and free flight rockets could take down a heavy bomber in a single pass. It was about 100mph faster than the contemporary British Gloster Meteor F1.

LineDoggie
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Re: Is Me 262 suck?

Post by LineDoggie » 02 Jun 2020 22:40

Luthfi nasution wrote:
02 Jun 2020 16:49
Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?
ALL the first generation jet fighters suffered in take off and landing from acceleration issues

One aspect the other Allied A/C didnt have was sabotage by the slave labor workers at Jumo engine manufacturing plant Turbine blades in particular were vulnerable
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

Luthfi nasution
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Location: Indonesia

Re: Is Me 262 suck?

Post by Luthfi nasution » 03 Jun 2020 01:50

Sheldrake wrote:
02 Jun 2020 18:35
Luthfi nasution wrote:
02 Jun 2020 16:49
Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?
Yes. By comparison with the Mig 15 and F86 Sabre the Me262 was a poor jet fighter. But none of these were in production in 1945.

The Me262 was a revolutionary aircraft, the first jet fighter. It was designed as a bomber destroyer, despite Hitler's wishes for a bomber.

By comparison with piston engined fighters the Me262 was unmanouvreable,. if an Me262 pilot attempted to dogfight with a P51 or Spitfire it would lose, as both could out turn it in instantanous and sustained turns. It was slow to accelerate. Early generation jet engines were slow to pick up speed. In a dive the Me262 could quickly reach a critical speed which would prevent the pilot from pulling out. The Germans had problems with engine reliability. They lacked access to raw materials to make special allows. Engines had a life of around 25 hours.

But, once airborne with speed and altitude the Me262 could out run and out climb any contemporary piston-engine fighter. It could choose to engage or disengage at will. That gave it as big an advantage over piston engined aircraft as the spitfire or Me109 had over biplane fighters of the 1930s. It made them all obsolete. A burst from its four 30mm cannon and free flight rockets could take down a heavy bomber in a single pass. It was about 100mph faster than the contemporary British Gloster Meteor F1.
is that the problem me 262 faced or all first generation of jet fighter lack of manuverability?

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Sheldrake
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Re: Is Me 262 suck?

Post by Sheldrake » 03 Jun 2020 09:06

Luthfi nasution wrote:
03 Jun 2020 01:50
Sheldrake wrote:
02 Jun 2020 18:35
Luthfi nasution wrote:
02 Jun 2020 16:49
Hi guys, i'm new here and i have a question. every time i read article about german jets, especially Me 262, some writers said, it was between good and bad jet plane. but yeah some said, it was a bad jet plane. they said it has a slow acceleration when take off and landing, it also hardly maneuverable. is that true? and why would that happened? :? :?
Yes. By comparison with the Mig 15 and F86 Sabre the Me262 was a poor jet fighter. But none of these were in production in 1945.

The Me262 was a revolutionary aircraft, the first jet fighter. It was designed as a bomber destroyer, despite Hitler's wishes for a bomber.

By comparison with piston engined fighters the Me262 was unmanouvreable,. if an Me262 pilot attempted to dogfight with a P51 or Spitfire it would lose, as both could out turn it in instantanous and sustained turns. It was slow to accelerate. Early generation jet engines were slow to pick up speed. In a dive the Me262 could quickly reach a critical speed which would prevent the pilot from pulling out. The Germans had problems with engine reliability. They lacked access to raw materials to make special allows. Engines had a life of around 25 hours.

But, once airborne with speed and altitude the Me262 could out run and out climb any contemporary piston-engine fighter. It could choose to engage or disengage at will. That gave it as big an advantage over piston engined aircraft as the spitfire or Me109 had over biplane fighters of the 1930s. It made them all obsolete. A burst from its four 30mm cannon and free flight rockets could take down a heavy bomber in a single pass. It was about 100mph faster than the contemporary British Gloster Meteor F1.
is that the problem me 262 faced or all first generation of jet fighter lack of manouverability?
The short answer is that all fast jet fighters trade low speed manouvrability for speed. (Apart from the Harrier which cheats) A C130 is far more manouverable than an F16. An alert crew can evade simulated gun attacks.

There are several factors that make up manouverability and are determined by the aircraft's configuration - which is why some aircraft have swing wing designs. If you are really interested in this invest in Fighter Combat by Robert Shaw or some other book about aircraft design.

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