Franz Stigler or Stiegler

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Rogerbutthead
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Franz Stigler or Stiegler

Post by Rogerbutthead » 17 Nov 2022 19:28

This pilot claimed to be the Me 109 pilot who spared the B-17 of Charlie Brown on December 20th, 1943.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_B ... r_incident

He is also one of the at least five pilots of JG 27 that was identified in the book "Fighters over the Desert" by Christopher Shores who made at least 14 claims of victory (July 10th - August 16th, 1942) under dubious circumstances - little or no UK confirmation of such combats. This group of "expert" pilots of II/JG27 was separated and distributed so they could not fly together after 59 kill ace Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt reported that he saw them shooting into sand dunes during a mission in which they claimed 12 kills (2 by Stiegler).

Supposedly Brown told his story in public in 1986. Per the wiki, Brown told his story of the escort, salute, etc. to a public gathering - at a combat pilot reunion event called a "Gathering of the Eagles" at the Air Command and Staff College at Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama. After four years of searching vainly for U.S. Army Air Forces, U.S. Air Force and West German air force records that might shed some light on who the other pilot was, Brown had come up with little. He then wrote a letter to a combat pilot association newsletter. A few months later he received a letter from Stigler, who was now living in Canada. "I was the one," it said. When they spoke on the phone, Stigler described his plane, the escort and salute, confirming everything that Brown needed to hear to know he was the German fighter pilot involved in the incident.

So, Stigler had four years to find out about what was said about this incident and was able to recount what Brown had described in public.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-ar ... ml?edg-c=1

According to this article, Brown had a hazy recollection of the event, and the German filled in the details.

"Brown had a very hazy memory of the incident and was encouraged to find the German who saluted him to fill in the rest of the memory and make sure it wasn’t a dream or hallucination."

JG 27 was spread out over Croatia, Austria and France - apparently - on December 20th, 1943.

I was wondering if someone here can verify Stiegler's version of events or even if he was in France on that date.

I just have doubts about his credibility based on his lies about those kills in the desert.

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Rogerbutthead
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Re: Franz Stigler or Stiegler

Post by Rogerbutthead » 17 Nov 2022 19:32

Can't seem to find a way to edit this.

Stiegler was one of at least five pilots who made claims in this period that were doubted by the other German pilots in that unit per that book. Stiegler made a total of 14 claims during that time period - the total number of claims of these pilots was much larger.

VtwinVince
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Re: Franz Stigler or Stiegler

Post by VtwinVince » 01 Dec 2022 18:08

Hi Roger,

I have posted on this subject in some detail in the past. My uncle, Major Dr. Albrecht Ochs, was 'Abschuss-Offizier' with JG27 during the time period when these dubious claims were made. I also knew Stigler personally for some years, and had dinner with Charlie Brown as well. I also contacted Edu Neumann for clarification of my uncle's role in this affair, and got a very hostile response from him. Interestingly, my uncle was transferred out of theatre on August 16th, 1942, I believe because he raised concerns with Neumann about these false claims and was sent packing. My uncle would never knowlingly have gone along with faking claims. I also was kept at arm's length by Stigler, who seemed to be covering up the whole affair. My opinion about the B-17 incident is that it is questionable on many levels, least of all the repercussions that a Luftwaffe Jagdflieger would have been subjected to for deliberately sparing an enemy bomber. The whole media circus surrounding this alleged event BITD also left me highly sceptical.

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