2 cm Zerf.Gesch. m. Zerl.

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

Hello,
I've been trying to figure out what the purpose of this shell is, from what I know it was apparently made out of hard cardboard, which is unusual for a shell, and is filled with steel shot(?) and baryte. Maybe it was some sort of case shot?
(I've also been wondering what Zerf. stands for)
Kind regards

[Grzesio]

Zerf. is for Zerfall.
It is generally a training projectile intended to break apart immediately after leaving the barrel, providing enough recoil to operate the gun automatics, but keeping the downrange as safe as possible.

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

Thanks for the information!
Cheers

[Hans1906]

Link to a german PDF file from the year 2015: "Identification catalog for ammunition and weapons of both world wars and modern times"

https://rp.baden-wuerttemberg.de/filead ... log_01.pdf

From my own experience, more or less painfully, I would stay away from old German ammunition.
This find material is not to be trifled with, not even remotely, more than a handful of the seekers have taken themselves to the proverbial "Nirvana" with this material...

It is better to stay away from ammunition collectors, the events of the last decades speak for themselves, not only here in Germany...


Hans

[Hans1906]

I remember a collector of German ammunition in very large calibers.
Our collector friend collected "cutaway" models of German anti-aircraft grenades, the worst thing I've ever came across.

The allegedly defused footage in his home scared me personally, unable to tell the defused footage from the still-active footage.

When people collect this material, you better get away from it as soon as possible.
People who collect German "Panzerfaust" and "Wurfgranaten", please don't have them near me, that was too much.

Stay away from such people!


Hans

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

Link to a german PDF file from the year 2015: "Identification catalog for ammunition and weapons of both world wars and modern times"

https://rp.baden-wuerttemberg.de/filead ... log_01.pdf

From my own experience, more or less painfully, I would stay away from old German ammunition.
This find material is not to be trifled with, not even remotely, more than a handful of the seekers have taken themselves to the proverbial "Nirvana" with this material...

It is better to stay away from ammunition collectors, the events of the last decades speak for themselves, not only here in Germany...


Hans

I don't have any ammunition, nor do I plan on collecting any, I just make paper models of them. All I was wondering was what this shell that I found on a website named michaelhiske.de was for, that's all.
Kind regards

[Hans1906]

One should stay away from that old ammo, and this is no joke!

The old shit is more dangerous than ever, the crystallized material is a fire hazard even after all these years.
In the 1970s, we ignorant idiots dug up rows and rows of German throwable grenades, not realizing how very dangerous these grenades were.
What can I say, we were very lucky, nothing happened, but we youngsters could just as easily have blown ourselves into eternity...

I wouldn't even visit these areas today as a cyclist or walker, and there are these areas everywhere, right in the next forest, Germany 2023.

There are still areas here in Germany, that it is better not to enter, and unfortunately these areas are not marked.
But that's the typical way of dealing with the old ammunition, nothing will happen...

Our country is still stuffed with the remnants of the last war, you stick a finger in the ground and the shit comes out, overall...


Hans

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

One should stay away from that old ammo, and this is no joke!

The old shit is more dangerous than ever, the crystallized material is a fire hazard even after all these years.
In the 1970s, we ignorant idiots dug up rows and rows of German throwable grenades, not realizing how very dangerous these grenades were.
What can I say, we were very lucky, nothing happened, but we youngsters could just as easily have blown ourselves into eternity...

I wouldn't even visit these areas today as a cyclist or walker, and there are these areas everywhere, right in the next forest, Germany 2023.

There are still areas here in Germany, that it is better not to enter, and unfortunately these areas are not marked.
But that's the typical way of dealing with the old ammunition, nothing will happen...

Our country is still stuffed with the remnants of the last war, you stick a finger in the ground and the shit comes out, overall...


Hans

I respect that you are making a point to some extent. Basically you're trying to warn me about tampering with old ammunition, despite myself not having an interest in collecting these kinds of stuff. I already know there is quite a lot of unexploded ordnance still out there in Germany.

[LineDoggie]

Link to a german PDF file from the year 2015: "Identification catalog for ammunition and weapons of both world wars and modern times"

https://rp.baden-wuerttemberg.de/filead ... log_01.pdf

From my own experience, more or less painfully, I would stay away from old German ammunition.
This find material is not to be trifled with, not even remotely, more than a handful of the seekers have taken themselves to the proverbial "Nirvana" with this material...

It is better to stay away from ammunition collectors, the events of the last decades speak for themselves, not only here in Germany...


Hans

He asked what it was, not that he had cases of them

and your bigoted Asinine claim to stay away from ammo collectors as though those people are somehow dangerous shows you have infantile ideas

[LineDoggie]

I remember a collector of German ammunition in very large calibers.
Our collector friend collected "cutaway" models of German anti-aircraft grenades, the worst thing I've ever came across.

The allegedly defused footage in his home scared me personally, unable to tell the defused footage from the still-active footage.

When people collect this material, you better get away from it as soon as possible.
People who collect German "Panzerfaust" and "Wurfgranaten", please don't have them near me, that was too much.

Stay away from such people!


Hans

Infantile gibberish

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

I remember a collector of German ammunition in very large calibers.
Our collector friend collected "cutaway" models of German anti-aircraft grenades, the worst thing I've ever came across.

The allegedly defused footage in his home scared me personally, unable to tell the defused footage from the still-active footage.

When people collect this material, you better get away from it as soon as possible.
People who collect German "Panzerfaust" and "Wurfgranaten", please don't have them near me, that was too much.

Stay away from such people!


Hans

Infantile gibberish

Exactly! He probably thinks I have an interest of collecting live ammunition, when I have barely any interest of collecting such things.

[Hans1906]

Dear people, you are both in the wrong movie, my childhood friend Michel blew out an eye with found ammunition at a young age, at the age of only 12 years.

The ammunition was lying around everywhere, we children used to "fish" with German hand grenades, that was fun in our free time.

Our one-eyed childhood friend Michel took his own life in 1992.
A small and brave boy, always first, never a coward, always ready for a fight, our dear friend lost his last fight.


Hans

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

Dear people, you are both in the wrong movie, my childhood friend Michel blew out an eye with found ammunition at a young age, at the age of only 12 years.

The ammunition was lying around everywhere, we children used to "fish" with German hand grenades, that was fun in our free time.

Our one-eyed childhood friend Michel took his own life in 1992.
A small and brave boy, always first, never a coward, always ready for a fight, our dear friend lost his last fight.


Hans

Why are we even talking about the dangers of old surplus ammunition in this thread anyway? This turned from me trying to identify a piece of practice ammunition on a blueprint into a discussion about the dangers of old ammunition/grenades because of you, despite this topic being about ammunition it is about WHAT A PIECE OF AMMO I FOUND ON A BLUEPRINT WAS FOR, NOT about the DANGERS OF OLD AMMUNITION, thus you're trying to convert this into another topic. We should most likely create a new thread somewhere else to discuss these such things.

Also, huge respect for your childhood friend for fighting so hard in his life.

Kind regards

[Hans1906]

I knew three children and teenagers who had seriously injured themselves with ammunition.

A school friend at our boarding school in northern Hessen stole ammunition from American troops on maneuvers there in the 1970s.

The boy was tinkering with the ammunition in our school's workroom, and the boy also lost an eye.
Half a year later, our classmate returned to our school with a badly wounded face and a glass eye.

That resulted in a huge trouble with the US Army at the time, our school was sued by his parents for neglecting to supervise.
Young people are drawn to guns and ammunition, I speak from personal experience.
But I've always had far more fear than courage, and thanks to the gods I've been spared a glassy eye.

Virtually yelling at me in capital letters is pointless, something like that bounces off me.


Hans

[Flakvierling auf Spreizlafette]

I knew three children and teenagers who had seriously injured themselves with ammunition.

A school friend at our boarding school in northern Hessen stole ammunition from American troops on maneuvers there in the 1970s.

The boy was tinkering with the ammunition in our school's workroom, and the boy also lost an eye.
Half a year later, our classmate returned to our school with a badly wounded face and a glass eye.

That resulted in a huge trouble with the US Army at the time, our school was sued by his parents for neglecting to supervise.
Young people are drawn to guns and ammunition, I speak from personal experience.
But I've always had far more fear than courage, and thanks to the gods I've been spared a glassy eye.

Virtually yelling at me in capital letters is pointless, something like that bounces off me.


Hans

Still, you're bringing this off topic, so it's probably best if we create a new thread to discuss things like that. Again, I would like to reiterate that this thread is about what the piece of ammunition on the first post was for, not about the dangers of old ammunition. So please, it would be best if we move such topics to a different thread. It is pointless arguing back and forth about tampering with old ammunition in this thread that is about a piece of ammo I found on a blueprint that I needed help identifying.

Many thanks, and regards