Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

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Simon Gunson
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by Simon Gunson » 06 May 2004 10:39

This is slightly off topic, but I trawled through a German website and found a posting which does not translate easily but I should post it anyway. The thread delt with the fate of U-boat archives and secret messages to U-boats sent by a cypher system which was not broken by the end of the war called SFM43 Krokdil (possibly a digital burst system ?). This would be proof that Donitz did know enigma was compromised.

Why it is relevant is that it shows Ju-290 aircraft in Lufthansa markings were flying millitary missions to Spain. The site's address is:

http://f1.parsimony.net/forum162/messages/23572.htm

In places I have inserted words to improve the grammar enclosed :[**]
Written by baires on 21 March 2004 16:56:34:

RH: Notes for GG! to U-869./U-327./U-1279,/and Karl=SFM 43
Hello Mr. Karl! Thanks, surprisingly, thought that it [was] Mr. G. is, which lives in Brazil. The 11/44 the USA agent OI, but briefly after landing the U 1230, in the USA calm and there soon surrender survives there and to Brazil changed later. Wrote there four years earlier friend, a map there in 1910 geb., thus at that time [it was] already 90 years.
If it is an older Mr. H. and something had to do with SFM 43

Code: Select all

, then surprisingly, since also this would be now far in the 90. Lenbensjahr.

The courier flew as admits H. Anfang April 1945 from Berlin to Munich. Stairs there into Lufthansa CONDOR Ju 290 and with further Passengers in the night flight on 5./6. April 1945 to Barcelona. Flight-put alps, Rhonetal, Mediterranean, Barcelona. With landing in Barcelona, the tail landing gear broke off at the Ju 290. The machine remained lying. It became with another airplane still another spare wheel with mounting [was] flown to Barcelona, however the Ju 290 repair of the damage could not any longer not fly back, there. The Spaniards from allied pressure closed Barcelona airport starting from 12 April 1945 for Takeoffs and landings of German Linienmaschienen etc. Officially to close had. Perhaps allied also found out which passengers have etc. in this last official flight sat. 

Anyhow the Ju 290 on the airfield Barcelona remained and stood 1946 and became probably of the splinter also still there. Air Force taken over. The Mr. H. traveled to Madrid, delivered there its courier thing (film doses with UfA features, like fortress Kolberg film in Fabe), perhaps with Pads volumes, none there technically which would have noticed, because volumes are volumes and he emigrated sometime after SA. Is to have moved however only later after S.P. By the way that outstandingly perfectly made last quantity color film "Kolberg" became still February 1945 by means of Ju 252 the west fortresses at the Atlantic flown and there the soldiers demonstrated. Should that

Holding out will strengthen! By the way also submarine drivers saw there the colour strip in the Casinos. Probably and rather reliably Mr. H. knew only the filmrollen etc., with it also still another kilometer the Pads of volumes was, might it not have known. All Pads was generally provided in Berlin!

Probably therefore boron man came on the idea starting from February 1945 navy the SFM 43 system Krokdil of Doenitz deliver themselves and/or to let give for joint use. H.S. communicated times, all this Staff officers against it were completely particularly and Hesseler and Godt on the other hand intervened. The Gross Admiral stood however probably somehow in the word, because it gave the naval [it's] own code-system, that [was] not compatible with Air Force! and army! off. 

The volumes came....in the sense from UfA laboratory range, which one as perfect camouflage to understand can. In the long run the Pads was only even such as tapes, that punched of three strips were, for a FRR refined at that time

Equipment. Today with most modern Labs, according to the same basic principle, but with Andereren storage media assigned in diplomat communication. Perhaps you can Mr. Karl, give small hint whether Mr. H. perhaps the described action traveler in things of kulturfilme was.

MfG. baires(telmo/barrio)
[/quote]

MfG refers to the rank of candidate seaman fahnGefreiter and the M to the occupation Minen/ Maschinist/Marine etc ... anybody know ?

This Ju-290 appears to have been the second abandoned there by 12 April 1945 according to this writer and then there was a Ju-290 from Finsterwalde on 20 April and another from Pargue on 26 April 1945.

Did these include the three alleged to have flown to Manchuria werk no 10182, 10183, 10184 ?

Does anybody know their fates ?
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Erich
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Post by Erich » 06 May 2004 14:02

Simon keep pursueing..............very interesting.

mfg means : many friendly greetings. this is quite a popular and normal closing

Erich ~

Simon Gunson
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by Simon Gunson » 07 May 2004 08:53

I do intend to persue this further but being in New Zealand makes it very hard to find sources. Kurt Steiner tells me that this man Baires whose forum post I quoted above may live in Galacia (telmo barrio) It would be very interesting if somebody on this forum could convince him to come forward and say what he knows.

I know that Herr Baires prefers to remain anonymous and from reading his other comments still fears what happened to the commandant of U-873. That is, beaten to death after VE day by US interrogators.

Before the war Deutsch Luft Hansa had established a regular service to Bangkok. The Italian trimotor which flew to Japan did so via Kabul. If the Italians could land and refuel at Kabul why couldn't DLH. Nazi Germany maintained an embassy in Bangkok, so perhaps the flighs continued through the war ?

Panzermahn lives in Malaysia. Perhaps he could find out for us ?

Luftwaffe Air Marshal Erhard Milch by the way became the head of Deutsch Lufthansa in 1943.

Herr Baires' comments are very interesting and I have asked Kurt who lives at Barcelona to try and find out more about wartime flights there. Herr Baires talked of DLH Condor. I know of Syndicato Condor in South America which flew Fw200 Condors. Sometime about 1942/43 Syndicato Condor which flew two Fw200 Condors changed it's name to Cruizero. Below I have reproduced the covers of two timetables of Cruizero airlines from Bjorn Larsson's airline time tables.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/sc.htm

Herr Baires was very specific though that these were Ju-290 aircraft on DLH Condor services in April 1945 at Barcelona.
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DrG
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Re: Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by DrG » 07 May 2004 11:26

Simon Gunson wrote:The Italian trimotor which flew to Japan did so via Kabul. If the Italians could land and refuel at Kabul why couldn't DLH.
In the various accounts that I've read of the Italian flight to Far East, not one told about a landing in Kabul (there was only a reference, not supported by any document, in this thread); moreover, it would have been rather illogic: between Kabul and Manchuria there are the mounts of Hindukush and Pamir: too high for a SIAI-Marchetti S.75GA overloaded with fuel (not to talk about the weather conditions). And given the control of UK and USSR on Afghanistan (that had been forced to expell Axis "agents" on 19 Oct. 1941 under the threat of becoming another Iran), I think that they wouldn't have given even a drop of fuel to an Italian or a German airplane (that, by the way, would have been easily spotted by Allied diplomats and agents in Kabul).

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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by Simon Gunson » 09 May 2004 09:19

DrG I threw up Kabul more as a question than a statement. The Italian aircraft made a second attempt to reach Rangoon flying Bulgaria-Kabul, which appears to have been unsuccessful.

Furthermore, according to an item on the History channel, Subahas Chandra Bose made his way across India after escaping from jail and was met by an Abwher team in Kabul who had him flown from Kabul to Germany. If he was flown out then what other flights existed ?

I have learned from e-mail with the keeper of an authoritative website on the Junkers Ju-290 (whom I don't have permission to name yet) that these routes were investigated from 1943 by Lufthansa and not the Luftwaffe. That they were not proceeded with because of japanese fear about overflights. He said polar routes by Ju-290 and Bv222 were also explored.

I am told that this project was cancelled in April 1944, but another project started in July 1944 to fly non-stop from Bulgaria to Paotow (300nm west of Peking)

The following aircraft were withdrawn from Luftwaffe service for conversion to DLH Lufthansa service: 10182, 10183, 10184, 10178 and another werk no 10163 was still under conversion at Travenmuende in May 1945.

The question which we should be asking therefore is what records the Russians, Bulgarians or Chinese have of these flights ?

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stril
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Post by stril » 09 May 2004 22:35

Hello
Was browsing in some old FlyPast magazines and feb.88 magazine had a two page article called "Urals Bomber"
It was some info about the Ju 290 and 390, also mentionig the flights to New York and Manchuria,(preparations, from where to when etc., couple of photos) and a flight to Tokyo via the north pole route.
About the last one "it aroused a great interest, and the japanes Army saw it proving to be most valuable in the role of a long range recon. bomber"
written by Ian Gallacher.
regards
stril

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DrG
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Re: Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by DrG » 10 May 2004 01:07

Simon Gunson wrote:The Italian aircraft made a second attempt to reach Rangoon flying Bulgaria-Kabul, which appears to have been unsuccessful.
I'm not aware of this flight, I know it was proposed to fly to Burma instead of Manchuria to avoid the Japanese fear of violating Soviet neutrality, but AFAIK no flights on that route were ever made.
Furthermore, according to an item on the History channel, Subahas Chandra Bose made his way across India after escaping from jail and was met by an Abwher team in Kabul who had him flown from Kabul to Germany. If he was flown out then what other flights existed ?
Bose passed through Soviet Union before Barbarossa (here there are some very interesting German documents, translated in English, about the travels of Bose: http://projectsouthasia.sdstate.edu/Doc ... cs/SCBose/).
I am told that this project was cancelled in April 1944, but another project started in July 1944 to fly non-stop from Bulgaria to Paotow (300nm west of Peking)
This route would have been similar to the one used by the S.75GA (or RT). In fact the Italian airplane flew from Zaporoshje in Eastern Ukraine (but at the beginning it had been proposed to fly from Odessa) to Pao Tow Chen (that is nothing more than a different spelling of Paotow, now spelled Baotou, on the Yellow River; it was in Inner Mongolia, an indipendent state that was recognized only by the Axis members).

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Long Range German Aircraft

Post by ohrdruf » 19 May 2004 16:52

The priority of long range transcontinental flights to Manchuria was reconnaissance behind the Urals. A new book (Manfred Griehl: LUFTWAFFE OVER AMERICA, Greenhill Books London, due early 2005) deals exclusively with the subject of German WWII long range designs.

Griehl appears certain that the Ju 390 V-1 prototype did not have the characteristics to make a long transatlantic flight. However, the Luftwaffe had mastered mid-air refuelling by early 1944 and so a flight to within sighting distance of New York was not out of the question by Ju 290s. Two Ju 290 A2s (Works Nos 0157 and 0158) experimented over the Atlantic from Mont de Marsan in May 1945 but the extent westwards reached is not known.

The only known official plan to attack the American East Coast was Oberst von Lossberg´s scheme approved by Milch and Doenitz in 1943. Here a BV 222 flying boat would rendezvous with a U-boat 1000 miles off New York to refuel and bomb-up for the attack. Priorities were to be the Jewish quarter and the docks. By 1944 such an operation was no longer feasible.

The existence of a second prototype Ju 390 V-2 is disputed but seems a reasonable possibility. Joachim Eisenmann´s entry in his flying log for 9 February 1945 identifies the aircraft he test flew as Ju 390 V-2 (RC+DA). It was then left at Laerz aerodrome near Rechlin.
The trail continues with the testimony of SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Rudolf Schuster, III Dept/RSHA. In his personal file (Berlin Document Centre), under interrogation Schuster stated that in June 1944 he had responsibility for the SS-ELF Special Evacuation Commando subordinated to Lower Silesia Gauleiter Karl Hanke (appointed successor to Himmler in Hitler´s Last Will and Testament).
Schuster stated that in the second half of April 1945, a special Ju 390 attached to KG 200 brought top secret scientific materials from Schweidnitz to Bodo in Norway where it was then supervised by SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Jacob Sporrenberg. The aircraft was painted pale blue and given Swedish AF markings, kept under tarpaulins and guarded by the SS.
Former Oberfunkmeister Wolfgang Hirschfeld, U-234 radio operator, stated in his book "Das Letzte Boot - Atlantik Farewell" that a plan existed in April 1945 to fly a KG 200 aircraft with supplementary tanks to Japan with one fuelling stop in China. It was to have shipped the special "uranium" cargo which eventually finished up at Portsmouth NH aboard Hirschfeld´s U-boat. The flight was not approved because it could not be made without crossing Soviet air space at some point.
Schuster´s direct superior, head of SS-ELF SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Otto Neumann, masqueraded under various aliases postwar and was well known to the intelligence authorities in Argentina.
There is an Argentinian intelligence report (cited in an unpublished manuscript in my possession, Basti: Nazi Bariloche) which mentions a six-engined German aircraft landing at a German owned ranch in Paysandu province, Uruguay in early May 1945 with SS-ELF super-secret scientific material aboard, but although I believe it personally I cannot vouch for it.

Ohrdruf

Francis
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Ju290/390 in America

Post by Francis » 15 Sep 2004 17:05

Hello guys
I'm new to the forum so be gentle with me please!

I remember seeing a photograph of the JU290 touching down in America after the war, complete with American markings on it, I'm sure it was the Ju290 although could have been a Ju390. It was flown across the Atlantic by a Luftwaffe pilot. There was a webpage with the photograph on it naming the pilot etc but I'll be damned if I can find it again. If I do i'll be sure and post it.

To Ohrdurf on what you posted "There is an Argentinian intelligence report (cited in an unpublished manuscript in my possession, Basti: Nazi Bariloche) which mentions a six-engined German aircraft landing at a German owned ranch in Paysandu province, Uruguay in early May 1945 with SS-ELF super-secret scientific material aboard, but although I believe it personally I cannot vouch for it".

thats all abit vague but never the less interesting, any more information you can give on this? :)

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Re: Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 19 Sep 2004 00:07

Simon Gunson wrote:... This would be proof that Donitz did know enigma was compromised...
Obviously Doenitz was warned about the intelligence that allieds gained with Aenigma! Just after the failure of the big Wolf-pack against convoy SC40 out of Iceland waters he had no doubt in this fact. But it was a good strategy from Doenitz let the allies sure that Kriegsmarine was not in intelligence about the allied consciourness. He was in possession of the new cypher code of RN and any change in U-boot displacement had the possibility to cause the revocation of the new British code.

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Stormbird
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Post by Stormbird » 19 Sep 2004 04:02

Hi all
Francis i was this it

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Post by Stormbird » 19 Sep 2004 04:24

Opps my bad clicked the wrong button 2nd try
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Stormbird
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Post by Stormbird » 19 Sep 2004 04:28

Also got a couple of rare color photos
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gabriel pagliarani
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Re: Long Range German Aircraft

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 19 Sep 2004 10:45

ohrdruf wrote:....The trail continues with the testimony of SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Rudolf Schuster, III Dept/RSHA. In his personal file (Berlin Document Centre), under interrogation Schuster stated that in June 1944 he had responsibility for the SS-ELF Special Evacuation Commando subordinated to Lower Silesia Gauleiter Karl Hanke (appointed successor to Himmler in Hitler´s Last Will and Testament).
Schuster stated that in the second half of April 1945, a special Ju 390 attached to KG 200 brought top secret scientific materials from Schweidnitz to Bodo in Norway where it was then supervised by SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Jacob Sporrenberg. The aircraft was painted pale blue and given Swedish AF markings, kept under tarpaulins and guarded by the SS.
Former Oberfunkmeister Wolfgang Hirschfeld, U-234 radio operator, stated in his book "Das Letzte Boot - Atlantik Farewell" that a plan existed in April 1945 to fly a KG 200 aircraft with supplementary tanks to Japan with one fuelling stop in China. It was to have shipped the special "uranium" cargo which eventually finished up at Portsmouth NH aboard Hirschfeld´s U-boat. The flight was not approved because it could not be made without crossing Soviet air space at some point.
Schuster´s direct superior, head of SS-ELF SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Otto Neumann, masqueraded under various aliases postwar and was well known to the intelligence authorities in Argentina.
There is an Argentinian intelligence report (cited in an unpublished manuscript in my possession, Basti: Nazi Bariloche) which mentions a six-engined German aircraft landing at a German owned ranch in Paysandu province, Uruguay in early May 1945 with SS-ELF super-secret scientific material aboard, but although I believe it personally I cannot vouch for it....
Too many high rank SS officers linked to the high range stuff, and luftwaffe was totally out of it. Manchuria was a decoy target covering the attempted and failed (..or not?) evacuation of the Nazi Party bosses in South America. I have heard about a strange night landing happened in Isla del Sal during Spring 1945. Isla del Sal is exactly Midway from Berlin to Uruguay and even if occupied by allied till 1940, the handling of the airport was taken in care by Italian prisoners, the same who cared the landing strip before the war.

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Post by Francis » 19 Sep 2004 23:04

Hi Stormbird
Yes they are the pics alright and many thanks for posting them. Have you any info on those pics, I vaguely remember reading that it was aLuftwaffe pilot who flew the Ju290 to the states after the war.

Frank

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