Helicopter

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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qdave
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Helicopter

Post by qdave » 06 Aug 2003 06:28

Recently i have been watching a movie with Cleant Eastwood "Where Eagles Dare " and they showed helicopter there. i am just wondering was tehre any helicopters or something like them in those years. because as i know they were developed in late 50's or so :?

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Lawrence Tandy
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Post by Lawrence Tandy » 06 Aug 2003 06:34

Check this out
http://www.germanvtol.com/
I also read somewhere that the U.S.A also used helicopters in the Pacific in 1945 strictly for the eveacuation of wounded, but I can't remember where so I'm not certain if it's true.

gabriel pagliarani
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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 06 Aug 2003 15:38

LOLs and oddities. Bell Co. built the 1st helicopter: it was used in Korea not in WW2. Germans produced autogyros or gyrocopters and these are STOLs not VTOLs. But effectively a fine movie...

Timo
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Post by Timo » 06 Aug 2003 16:04

gabriel pagliarani wrote:LOLs and oddities. Bell Co. built the 1st helicopter: it was used in Korea not in WW2. Germans produced autogyros or gyrocopters and these are STOLs not VTOLs. But effectively a fine movie...
The Germans DID produce helicopters, one of them being the Flettner Fl-282 Kolibri. Unless I am mistaken (I am not an expert at all regarding this matter) it was VTOL...
Image

And the Fa-223 Drache...
Image

See this earlier discussion on German helicopters:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... d4468862f4

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 06 Aug 2003 16:05

Image
(click the cover & buy it to support the site & forum)

A books you might find useful is "Helicopters of the Third Reich" by Steve Coates.


Here is one of several threads on the German WW2 helicopters:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19292

/Marcus

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qdave
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Post by qdave » 06 Aug 2003 16:25

thanks alot guys :) now i am convined that chopers werent first used in korean war.
it is sinteresting of how much stuff germans developed.

and Lawrence Tandy thanks for link ;) there is plenty of cool stuff there :P

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 06 Aug 2003 20:38

gabriel pagliarani wrote:LOLs and oddities. Bell Co. built the 1st helicopter: it was used in Korea not in WW2. Germans produced autogyros or gyrocopters and these are STOLs not VTOLs. But effectively a fine movie...
Gabriel,
Are you sure... http://www.helis.com/stories/burma45.php

Regards, Juha

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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 07 Aug 2003 15:20

yes I am sure. Possible the action of Burma, clearly an hoax the Sikorsky flying crane with Nazi flag. :lol: Bell got profit from Licenses and trade Marks. Every body in the world wanted to produce helicopters had to pay royalties to Bell, like Agusta did till mid 60's. Obviously Soviets never did. If there was only a chance not to pay royalties (..as for german helicopters as "praeda bellica"...) why they paied royalties to Bell ????? :idea: Another Mhyra's mirage. :lol:

PS.
Counter rotating rotors with a counter rotating coaxial shaft was finally executed in early '70s in W.Germany. This is the only western helicopter featuring this device.

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Post by ChristopherPerrien » 07 Aug 2003 17:43

Gabriel do you mean a single shaft propeller hub with counter rotating blades or just a helicopter with this "action". Because I thought there was a US helicopter that use contra-rotating blades in the late 60's. It seems to have been on carriers for rescuing pilots downed during take-offs and landings , I can't remember the designation but it was short and stubby with two prop hubs side by side close together(about 1 meter apart?). It might have been use to pick-up astronauts out of the water on some earlier space missions too.

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Post by Timo » 07 Aug 2003 18:53

Did I miss something? Now, the Germans did build helicopters, right? So what's all this about Bell and Korea?

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Post by Caldric » 07 Aug 2003 19:12

The first successful fligth of a single rotor helicopter goes to Sikorsky’s VS-300. The idea goes back to the dark ages I guess.

It flew as early as 1939 tethered. The VS-300 lead to the VS-316 which was the worlds first production helicopter. Not sure when Bell got involved.

316 (XR4) was accepted into US Service in 1942 and was used some by the military in Burma and elsewhere.


Vs-300
Image
VS-316
Image

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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 08 Aug 2003 12:52

Timo Worst wrote:Did I miss something? Now, the Germans did build helicopters, right?....
LOLs. Not right, indeed. :roll:
Caldric was right! But in Burma action a X vehicle was used. X means X -perimental, and X-periments were done till early '20s everywhere and worlwide. X means far from ordnance like the Moon from Earth. Christophe, you are talking about "Pogo" project, as I have understood. It was a failure.. another X-project. Astronauts were rescued by powerful Sikorsky "fleet Angels".
Caldric in your photo there is something wrong...watch the pilot! He wears a "cylinder hat". :lol: Beware of those photos on Internet.....

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Post by Caldric » 08 Aug 2003 17:11

gabriel pagliarani wrote:Caldric in your photo there is something wrong...watch the pilot! He wears a "cylinder hat". :lol: Beware of those photos on Internet.....

No the photo is real, it comes from Sikorsky Historical Archives.

I do not find it to strange, I mean this is the age when men flew airplanes into barns, I do not find it strange someone wears a hat while flying a helicopter.

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Lustmolch
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Post by Lustmolch » 08 Aug 2003 18:09

Caldric wrote:
gabriel pagliarani wrote:Caldric in your photo there is something wrong...watch the pilot! He wears a "cylinder hat". :lol: Beware of those photos on Internet.....

No the photo is real, it comes from Sikorsky Historical Archives.

I do not find it to strange, I mean this is the age when men flew airplanes into barns, I do not find it strange someone wears a hat while flying a helicopter.
It's probably Igor Sikorsky himself. There is an earlier photo of this machine (or a prototype) without the streamlined fairing around the front.

I read somwhere that one of the Bell helicopters was used in Burma to effect the first medevac of its kind. An aircraft had crashed in the jungle, with only one survivor. To get to him on foot would have taken too long, so he was picked up by a helicopter.

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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 09 Aug 2003 10:46

Caldric wrote:....I do not find it to strange, I mean this is the age when men flew airplanes into barns, I do not find it strange someone wears a hat while flying a helicopter.
DE GUSTIBUS NEC DISPUTANDUM. (It is not a fair habit to talk about the personal tastes of other people) OK! But I never heard nothing like this about ordnance helmets...Iam just curious to know what Insurance co. covered the risks of Igor Sikorsky 8)
...Not sure when Bell got involved.
Bell was involved in the "collective" gear development and production. More than 40 patents were registered from Bell about the power gear of such helicopters. You know perfectly that US Defence calls at least 2 builders-producers of any ordnance device on US territory: simply Bell and Sikorsky shared the market. Sikorsky to USNavy + Marines, Bell Army + USAF ( born after WW2). A perfect "duopoly".

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