Nazi Jet-Planes?

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Owain Glyndwr
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Post by Owain Glyndwr » 08 Nov 2003 14:35

There werent enough of them to turn the tide anyway.

WikingSoldat
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Post by WikingSoldat » 08 Nov 2003 15:48

Owain Glyndwr wrote:There werent enough of them to turn the tide anyway.
Yes, but i think it was lack of fuel and well trained pilots that made it difficult. The production number of Me 262 was 1400 if i´m not wrong.

WikingSoldat

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Mauser K98k
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Post by Mauser K98k » 08 Nov 2003 18:13

The first prototype of the Me262 was flown in July '42. They had many problems with the new jet engines, but by late '43, the Junkers engineers had solved enough of them to allow the Me262 to go into mass production.
That was when Hitler (verbally) insisted the Me 262 be configured as a bomber rather than a fighter. Hitler's "orders" were ignored, because no one took it as anything more than the nonsensical suggestions of a layman. The Me 262 was exclusively produced as a fighter, but when this was discovered by the Führer, he threw a shitfit, and an immediate conversion of all planes was ordered. This delay, plus Allied bombing raids, pilot shortage, etc., doomed the project to a non-factor.

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Owain Glyndwr
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Post by Owain Glyndwr » 08 Nov 2003 18:22

If sizeable amounts of the ME-262 were put into battle in 1942 I think the allies would of been in serious trouble.

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Mauser K98k
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Post by Mauser K98k » 08 Nov 2003 18:31

No doubt.

Even if they were in service by early 1944 they would have stopped the American daylight bombing cold.

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Locke
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Post by Locke » 09 Nov 2003 00:14

Mauser K98k wrote:Even if they were in service by early 1944 they would have stopped the American daylight bombing cold.

I don't think so - the Germans were loosing the war and they were short on petrol, pilots and airports. But it would surely change the course of war.

regards,
Polona

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Mauser K98k
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Post by Mauser K98k » 09 Nov 2003 00:50

What I meant was that the Americans would probably have switched to night bombing missions like the Brits.

The USAAF Bomber Command almost gave up the Daylight Bombing concept after the Second Schweinfurt mission because losses were at an unacceptable level. I think in early '44 the jets would have had a devastating effect on morale in spite of the P-51's escort. On the other hand, the 262's were vulnerable while landing, so the P-51's may have been able to neutralize them.

As far as the fuel shortage problem, the jets used a kerosene-type fuel which had to be far more plentiful than high-octane Benzin used by the piston powered aircraft.

Pilot shortage was definitely a huge problem, however, so in the final analysis, you're probably right, Polona.

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Locke
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Post by Locke » 09 Nov 2003 01:26

Thanks Mauser :D

But not only pilot shortage - most of the pilots later in the war were young and unexperienced so they underestimated Me 262 and enemy pilots.

Me 262 also used R4M rockets to attack bombers. That was another advantage.
Image

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Polona

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 09 Nov 2003 02:12

The first useage of R4M was on March 18, 1945 with III./JG 7.

Also a special ops unit of the US 15th Air Force flew excelusively at night with all black B-24's dropping bombs and agents.....

~E

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Post by varjag » 09 Nov 2003 04:12

Mauser K98k wrote:I would recommend reading Mano Ziegler's very interesting book "Rocket Fighter" about flying and dogfighting in the Me163 Komet. Ziegler and his komrads had superhuman courage to fly those nasty unforgiving little bastards.
I read that book(?) ages ago in German. The title then was 'Raketenjäger Me 163 - by one that Survived' , which just about says it all about the military value of the a/c.

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Erich
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another book on a useless aircraft

Post by Erich » 09 Nov 2003 04:45

I'd suggest a copy of Wolfgang Späte's "Top Secret Bird" not a bad read if you care to read up more on this little piece of crap of an a/c.......Me 163

~E

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Mauser K98k
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Post by Mauser K98k » 09 Nov 2003 07:35

Locke wrote:Lippisch's airplanes are very interesting, altough they weren't used in combat......



Actually, the Me163 Komet was a Lippisch design. Although it did get into combat, it probably killed more Germans than Americans.

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Locke
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Post by Locke » 09 Nov 2003 11:21

Mauser K98k wrote:
Locke wrote:Lippisch's airplanes are very interesting, altough they weren't used in combat......



Actually, the Me163 Komet was a Lippisch design. Although it did get into combat, it probably killed more Germans than Americans.


You are right, I was thinking only of Lippisch P 13. Sorry, my mistake.

An interesting statement by General Walter Krupinski about Me 163
"Wolfgang Spaete, one good friend, flew the Me 163. I heard, for it it was problem that the thing exploded if both fuels came together. Because of this they had heavy losses. "Object fighter" only could be needed when, as we called it. You could let it climb only if they had already sighted the bombers and she then flew very fast highly. The main tactics as far as she is known to me consisted in, in attacking from above in withouting fuel if possible. I know no-one who has enjoyed flying her since she was a damned dangerous thing to flying. I would say it was a crazy idea - this is my opinion. If you have a fighter and must use up the fuel first, must then attack and then go through a gliding flight landing, this not seems to me particularly meaningfully"
Luftwaffengeneral Walter Krupinski


From http://www.b17bomber.de/english/me163.htm

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Polona

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Erich
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more books

Post by Erich » 09 Nov 2003 21:31

For the Me 262 I would suggest Manfred Boehme's JG 7 and Classic Publications 4 volume set on the jet.

~E

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Locke
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Post by Locke » 11 Nov 2003 16:56

What is your opinion of He 162, this almost wooden jet? Some pilots almost praised it - most of the faults of He 162 were made due to the lack of time for planning and producing the airplane.
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From http://www.luftwaffepics.com

Regards,
Polona

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