Reconstructed Nazi Plane 'Bombs' Ukraine Again

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Marcus
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Reconstructed Nazi Plane 'Bombs' Ukraine Again

Post by Marcus » 25 Jun 2002 22:45

Image

A Nazi plane screams through the sky, almost skimming the earth, and people start to scream "get down, the Luftwaffe are here."
With its swastikas gleaming in the sun, the plane bears down on Ukrainian soil once again and drops its load -- a huge bomb.
It does not explode.
Instead it bounces, and the handful of flying fanatics gathered on the center verge of a ramshackle aerodrome in southern Ukraine laugh, saying all it could kill was a rabbit.
...
For many in Ukraine, seeing a Nazi dive-bomber screeching through the sky stirs memories of the destruction wrought by Hitler's Luftwaffe air force and ground troops in World War II.
But for Nesonov it is the realization of a dream -- he has built a Junkers plane out of bits of scrap scavenged in Russia's Far North, and after several unsuccessful attempts he can fly a model of the dive-bomber that inflicted so much damage during the war.


http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2002/06/21/014.html

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 25 Jun 2002 23:19

A very good idea.

Being myself a fan of historic machinery(this including, but not limited to, classic automobiles & World Wars weapons) I can only praise the determination and the technical skill this gentleman had.

However, there is a thing that must be outlined:

Despite the suffering of the Soviet(including Ukrainian) population because of the German invasion, despite the long rule of Communism(which plenty of people still think it has been a sound idea), the Ukrainian authorities and the propaganda machinery did not deter the builder from painting the historically correct markings on the airplane, this including but not limited to the Hakenkreuz.

While the American company which had built the modern copies of the Me-262 did not dare to mark them with the Hakenkreuz. (And plenty of hypocrites around, beginning with Moderator Timo Worst, approved). :mrgreen:

The thread on the Me-262 is here:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1377

locked as expectable. My comments are on the second page.

I've said plenty of times that Communist(and post-Communist) regimes, despite their publicizing of the "monstrosity of the Hitlerian regime", did never dare to bring it to the level the Western propaganda machinery did and won't be limited to it. Nobody answered. Despite this, I'm going to say it again, and I'm going to say it until you'll know it by heart: with all the natural hatred the Communists had for the Hitlerian Third Reich, they did not do what Hollyweird does. Not even the fiercest Communist (Ehrenburg himself was not a CP member therefore he doesn't count) ever compared to a guy named Steven Spielberg(and to plenty of bastards like him).

Now since few people will be tempted to follow the link above, I'll repost below my Off-Topic(!?) comments, up to date:

"I prefer it Historically Correct than Politically Correct.

In Romania and other former Eastern Bloc countries, the model airplanes can have any historical markings(which is irrelevant, because most model kits available on the market are low-quality Russian ones, which have wrong markings and details anyway). The fact is that Political Correctness does not apply to this mere level of nitpicking as in West.

The reasons may be deeper, however. Up to 1990, the Communist regime did not allow for any serious info outside the official line to be published about the pre-1945 times. About the military operations of the Royal Romanian Army, only Stalingrad was quoted - to show how "Fascists lost". After the 1970s, President Ceausescu had allowed a certain degree of relaxation - for example the historical novel authors were allowed to describe Marshal Antonescu as "being a misled victim", therefore humanizing his image.

After 1990, the sides had changed - the period from August 1944 to May 1945 was suddenly forgotten. The authors, journalists etc began to spoke about the deeds of the Romanian military forces in the Anti-Soviet War, which was an expectable reaction against the former Communism - a way to show that we were not communized without defending our interests first. After all, the Soviet Union had been openly our enemy for decades - first Bessarabia, that the military occupation, then the economical harassment etc. This led to the re-positioning of the heroes of the Anti-Soviet War on their rightful places. There were even streets to bear the name of Marshal Antonescu, and statues of him built.

Neither in Communism, nor afterwards, had been the Holocaust publicized - just a few paragraphs in books dealing with the war. Thoughtcrimes Laws did not exist as such - just some obscure and never enforced articles of the Criminal Code dealing with "propaganda for totalitarian systems".

Suddenly, this spring some events happened:

1. a low-level journalist had made a documentary trying to show that Romanians are Anti-Semites; to the question of the TV moderator "How can be Anti-Semitism where there are almost no Jews?" he answered by showing a poll in which the people asked on the street what Holocaust was, answered "I don't exactly know, something about Hitler and war". The documentary had been broadcasted at an inconvenient hour, so I can bet neither Victor, nor other Romanian members here had seen it.

2. very soon after, US Ambassador Michael Guest had held a speech in which he condemned the "cult of Fascist war criminals";

3. soon after #2, Prime Minister Adrian Nastase had tried to impose a Government Order banning the "signs displaying extremist political doctrines" and stuff, in all public places except museums.

4: the historical magazines suddenly changed their tone; in articles dealing with the Eastern War appeared "disclaimers" telling that "we did not want war, we were forced into it". It's obvious what did provoke this change.

What I wished to outline is the fact that the Political Correct noose had already begun to tighten even around our necks, here in Romania, where we enjoyed the illusion of "free" speech for a decade. Thoughtcrimes are not allowed to remain unpunished, not even here. I bet soon the Hackenkreuz markings on the models will vanish here as well. "

Now I expect this thread to be also locked.

Big deal. Another similar event will happen. Maybe after a month, after a year, whenever.

Until then, the ostriches around are free to dig their heads into sand. :mrgreen:

~Regards,

Ovidius

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wolfen
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Post by wolfen » 26 Jun 2002 01:46

Saw this on the news last night. Great footage of him dropping the bomb.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 26 Jun 2002 01:58

Ovi, that was one of the best posts I've read in a long time. I really hope Europe unites so you can put the American assholes in their place. But, isn't the marking a Balkenkreuz?

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Scott Smith
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Black Crosses and Swastika...

Post by Scott Smith » 26 Jun 2002 02:03

Dan wrote:Ovi, that was one of the best posts I've read in a long time. I really hope Europe unites so you can put the American assholes in their place. But, isn't the marking a Balkenkreuz?

It's hard to see but there is a swastika on the tail. The markings look correct to me.
:)

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Post by AndyW » 29 Jun 2002 00:48

Guys: Seems that I'm the only one who really takes this "War against terrorism" serious enough to see it?

Face it:

The guy building that model plane is obviously a Bin Laden-terrorist and plans to crash his Stuka into a real jet airliner near the Kiev airport. The Swastika etc. is just to confuse the investigators to make 'em believe that this crime had been commited by neo-nazis.

CIA recommendation: Execute this guy silently!


Cheers,

Pumpkin
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Post by Pumpkin » 01 Jul 2002 13:32

On a similar topic, does anyone know anything about building a replica of the Me-163 Komet?

Found this on the web:

http://www.xcor.com/me163.html

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kobold
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Re: Reconstructed Nazi Plane 'Bombs' Ukraine Again

Post by kobold » 02 Jul 2002 10:30




hmm i was asked for a username and password when i tried the moscow times link......

dave/kobold

tonyh
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Post by tonyh » 03 Jul 2002 15:53

Nice to see a correctly marked model, flying too. But if there is one thing that really cheeses me off is the fact that one cannot buy something as harmless as a model airplane, with the correct period markings intact. This means that I and many others have to go elsewhere to get a set of bloody swastikas to complete the aircraft. Usually to the internet for aftermarket details, which is a pain in the arse, to be honest as I cannot always get the correct hakenkruez that I want. This means that the model has to remain unfinished.

What the hell is the point in not including them in the first place? Who does it serve and how do they have that much power. Ovi is correct that only Eastern European (as well as Japanese) model companies ship their model kits with the hakenkruez included. And I seriously applaude them too. Even the former aircraft symbol of Finland, the Blue swastika, is banned on model kits. This is even more fu*ked up, because this is not even a National Socialist symbol. Who the hell does this offend?

Whoever is pushing for the banning of these symbols should be made accountable for their actions. This "politically correct" stance has gone far enough. And at the end of the day it really serves no honourable purpose.

"I prefer it Historically Correct than Politically Correct"

Damn straight.

Tony

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Post by Timo » 03 Jul 2002 20:20

While the American company which had built the modern copies of the Me-262 did not dare to mark them with the Hakenkreuz. (And plenty of hypocrites around, beginning with Moderator Timo Worst, approved).


I never said that. I said that the factory is free to apply a swastika as an option and that a customer is free to decide not to fly his expensive machine with a nazi symbol. I also said that in America chances are little that somebody decides to buy a plane with a swastika, thus it would be a big mistake to sell them only with a swastika. This to oppose the popular opinion in the mentioned thread that people should be offered the plane with a swastika anyway, because this is historically correct. Its a commercial jet that looks like a Me, not an accurate reproduction. I would even approve if somebody wants it pink with polka-dots and a pigshead painted at its tail...

If you want to call me a hypocrite, at least call me that for something I said, not just for something you wished I said because you want to call me a hypocrite.

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 04 Jul 2002 11:18

Timo wrote: Its a commercial jet that looks like a Me, not an accurate reproduction.


This is hypocrisy.

According to sources, the one and only country that had Me-262 in service during WWII was the Third Reich. The Me-262 was, is and remains a Luftwaffe airplane. It was flown only by the Luftwaffe pilots and remained in history as a symbol of the Reich's air forces. If a customer buys a plane that looks like a Me-262, he does it because he wants a Me, and not whatever other plane.

I don't give a damn if the customer paints himself(or at a paint shop) a Hakenkreuz or whatever on the plane. It may be even better for the manufacturer to build the plane without the Hakenkreuz, to avoid lawsuits from some organizations that could charge him with "Nazi propaganda".

But a plane with Me-262 look and with no Hakenkreuz is no longer a true reproduction. It's a half-job, a mixture of correct and incorrect, a mongrel. And to approve this and say "it's fair" can't be considered otherwise than hypocrisy.

~Regards,

Ovidius

Timo
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Post by Timo » 04 Jul 2002 11:35

Ovi, what nonsense you've just written. Its amazing. If somebody wants to buy a Messerschmidt and wants to fly it in whatever color he likes its upto him, not you or me. If he likes the design of the plane but not the nazi-regime, its upto him to fly it without swastika, or without balkenkreuz or even without camo job.

Its no true reproduction anyway because it has modern engines, is build with modern contruction materials and last but not least: its dimensions are not an exact replica of the real Me262 because it has to adopt the new engines and they needed a more neutral flight behaviour. So stop wining about this...

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 04 Jul 2002 17:16

Timo wrote:If he likes the design of the plane but not the nazi-regime, its upto him to fly it without swastika, or without balkenkreuz or even without camo job.


Now you see the issue?

"He likes the design of the plane but not the nazi-regime"....

"We admire the ******** for combat qualities, but we do not sympathize the Nazi regime"....

"This site intends to provide information, is not affiliated to National Socialism or other political doctrines"....

Quotes like these can be found on plenty of sites and heard from plenty of mouths. Disclaimers, disclaimers, disclaimers..... pretty much everywhere.

~Ovidius

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