Airwar over Eastern front

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
bob t
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Airwar over Eastern front

Post by bob t » 16 Mar 2004 08:23

How many total Luftwaffe losses during this greatest airwar?
IS anybody know about Airwar over Kuban?

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 27 Mar 2004 04:00

The following units helped to supply the Kuban B/H in mid-late1943

KG zbv 9
KG zbv 102
KG zbv 50
KG zbv 172
KG zbv 500

All the staging area's were in the Crimea.

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Simon Gunson
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Airwar over Eastern front

Post by Simon Gunson » 13 Apr 2004 17:02

Hi Andy

'Scuse my ignorance but following up on the FW200 Condor at Gorky park exhibitions during the war did any of the units you mentioned operate the type at the Crimea or Stalingrad ?

Is there a logical explanation how an intact Condor was captured in 1943 by the Russians ?

bob t
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Post by bob t » 16 Apr 2004 04:07

How many Luftwaffe Ac loss in Eastern front how many fightersthey loss it? Sovyet loss 105.100. And any data about German allies in eastern front loss their AC? thanks

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Post by varjag » 17 Apr 2004 12:38

Bob - I've seen your question hanging about since March. I doubt - that there is any meaningful statistic of 'totals' on the eastern front. Loss to fighters/bombers/ FLAK/on ground/accidents/write-offs - it is a BIG question. If the total Soviet losses, all causes, are about 105 000 (how did they work that one out?) I venture a guess that the German were about 60% of that or, around 63 000 aircraft. Will be nice to read - if anyone comes up with actual figures - how close I came.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 19 Apr 2004 22:22

Total Soviet losses for the entier war are 88300 planes. Out of these number are 43100 combat losses.

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Post by varjag » 20 Apr 2004 11:12

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Total Soviet losses for the entier war are 88300 planes. Out of these number are 43100 combat losses.
Thanks Oleg for those figures - they seem plausable. Excluding the USSR-Japanese war, autumn 1945 they translate to a loss of some 30,4 aircraft a day against Germany but also a staggering 31,8 aircraft a day from 'other causes'. IOW - more Soviet aircraft were lost in accidents than destroyed by the Wehrmacht? We have all read about the high accident statistics at Soviet air-training schools - but I never imagined that they exceeded 'enemy action'.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 20 Apr 2004 18:27

varjag wrote:
Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Total Soviet losses for the entier war are 88300 planes. Out of these number are 43100 combat losses.
Thanks Oleg for those figures - they seem plausable. Excluding the USSR-Japanese war, autumn 1945 they translate to a loss of some 30,4 aircraft a day against Germany but also a staggering 31,8 aircraft a day from 'other causes'. IOW - more Soviet aircraft were lost in accidents than destroyed by the Wehrmacht? We have all read about the high accident statistics at Soviet air-training schools - but I never imagined that they exceeded 'enemy action'.
plane was counted as a losss if it was sent to factory for refitting and tune up, -but since it was not availlable for the unit - it is a loss. Accidents are of course included also.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 20 Apr 2004 21:58

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Total Soviet losses for the entier war are 88300 planes. Out of these number are 43100 combat losses.
Hi,

Red Stars 4, Finnish-Russian co-operation at it´s best :) http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/BookReviews/R ... /index.php
gives the following numbers for combat losses:

VVS KA 37165 planes
VVS VMF 4039 planes
DA, ADD, 18 VA 2776 planes
Civil Air Fleet 1074 planes

Total combat losses: 45054 planes

Regards, Juha

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Post by varjag » 21 Apr 2004 11:52

Trust Juha to have his finger on the pulse! This would be from the very well researched Bergstrom-books? And - I would assume state of the art assessments. Actually - I was surprised at such a 'low' figure as about 43-45 000 aircraft in combat losses. Olegs valuable information that damaged aircraft, 'sent back for repairs' were also tallied as 'losses' opens a Pandora's Box of what losses really meant. Something like 45 000 aircraft were 'lost' - but could be repaired - and lost again. And again? An interesting equation. Meanwhile, back to Bob t's question. Which really asks about combat losses - if the TRUE Soviet figure lies around the 45 000 mark, I reassess my estimate, but still at something like 60% of that - and now put my guess around 27 000 German aircraft. And will look forward to further information......

bob t
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Post by bob t » 23 Apr 2004 14:51

Is th 45.000 included taht th Luftwaffe destroy on th ground or just in the air battle? thanks

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 23 Apr 2004 18:22

bob t wrote:Is th 45.000 included taht th Luftwaffe destroy on th ground or just in the air battle? thanks
It just mentioned "combat losses" with the VVs KA, VV VMF, DA, AAD and 18 VA units. About Civil Air Fleet there is also mentioned "total losses": 1548 planes
Question:
there are no mention about PVO losses. Was PVO a "autonomous" organisation (= their losses are missing from the total number), or was it a part of VVS KA?

Regards, Juha

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 23 Apr 2004 19:31

Real total losses could be easy to count if were know how many planes USSR had in 1939 and 1945. Adding numbers of produced and delivered Lend-lease planes and counting out removed planes (finding that figure may be difficult) we get the number of losses (destroyed in combat and accidents).

Total losses (destroyed + damaged) should be much bigger figure than the production and deliveries of the new aircraft if same planes were lost and repaired (and even more than once).

How many more planes USSR had in 1945 than it had had in 1939?

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