what happen with thousand of obsolete planes

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panzertruppe2001
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what happen with thousand of obsolete planes

#1

Post by panzertruppe2001 » 30 Apr 2004, 20:45

This is my question. As far as i know when a German tank was obsolete it was replaced by a modern one and the obsolete one was turn into a Marder or a vehicle like this
But what happen with the planes?For example Martin Caidin in his book about the Bf 109 says that 1868 Bf 109 model E 3 were manufactured.

What happen with all of them when model F appeared?

I knew that a lot of them were destroyed over England

Were they used as supplies for further models? I suppose that model F, G K used common parts with the other ones

Were they used as training? I read something about this

Were they sent to quiter fronts? I do not think because the units informations shows that never had obsolete planes when a modern one existed

Were they destroyed by the Germans and use the scrap iron for the war industry?

Thanks

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Wiking Ruf
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#2

Post by Wiking Ruf » 30 Apr 2004, 21:13

AFAIK many parts will stay the same, like fuselage, tail, wings, etc.
All of that will stay the same so that's no problem.
Other parts will be changed, corrected to the new dimensions or use.


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Dora
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#3

Post by Dora » 01 May 2004, 03:51

Panzertruppe,
As newer and better models of fighter (and panzers and U-Boots) entered service, the older machines were religated to training units, quiet sectors of a front and quiet fronts, internal transport or entered reserve status in higher formation organizations.
Dora

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panzertruppe2001
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#4

Post by panzertruppe2001 » 01 May 2004, 23:56

Thanks Daan, thanks Dora

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Dora
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#5

Post by Dora » 02 May 2004, 00:41

Panzertruppe,
Permit me to expand upon my earlier answer as to what happened to obsolete equipment.
In the Wehrmacht, due to the battlefield reverses, especially in the East, there frequently was no opportunity to properly recycle older and obsolete machinery into and out of service. In many units this equipment was kept in active status as the arms manufacturers were never able to maintain the units at the prescribed TO&E strengths. As a result of this deficiency, any equipment that was functionable was kept in the line.
Dora

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Harri
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#6

Post by Harri » 02 May 2004, 23:59

In most cases obsolete planes were given to other units as replacements or they were used with the newer ones until they all were destroyed or damaged and rebuilt to meet the newer standards - they were seldom scrabbed as long as they were flyable. Lots of older planes served in secondary duties like in training formations and as liaison planes in combat units as well as were given or sold to German allies. These were used until gradually the numbers of these aircraft dropped due to combat losses and accidents.

Planes could be re-built to a newer standard but that happened mostly "inside" the same model letter i.e. Bf 109E-1 could become E-3 but not F-1. In German bombers certain models with different model letter could only have different engines although they were internally the same. There were also variants which had only different fittings (for example so called "Trop[ical]" variants). These could be later modified either using "field modification kits" or during major overgauls or re-building.

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Re: what happen with thousand of obsolete planes

#7

Post by Cantankerous » 23 Jul 2023, 02:19

Bearing in mind the fact that total production of Bf 109E and Bf 109F variants was almost 7,000 aircraft, more than 400 Bf 109Es and Bf 109Fs were exported to the Royal Yugoslav Air Force, Hungary, and Bulgaria as well as the air forces of Nazi puppet governments in Romania, Slovakia, and Croatia, so I'm curious if any of the Bf 109Es and Bf 109Fs in Romanian, Slovakian, Hungarian, and Yugoslav service that weren't shot down were relegated for training purposes following the acquisition of the Bf 109G and Bf 109K by Romania, Slovakia, Croatia, and Hungary or either destroyed in late 1944-early 1945 to avoid capture by Soviet forces and Yugoslav partisans.

Also there is the fact that two derelict Heinkel He 177A-3s had their fuselages used in the construction of the first two prototypes of the Junkers Ju 287 forward swept wing jet bomber (the Ju 287 V1 flew, but the Ju 287 V2 was not yet fully completed by the time the Ju 287 program was halted in late September 1944 when the RLM focused most of the Luftwaffe's priorities on the Heinkel He 162 and the Messerschmitt P.1101 and Focke-Wulf jet designs for an advanced jet fighter to replace the Me 262). By the same token, landing wheels from damaged or downed Bf 109s and He 177s were used in construction of the first three Horten Ho 229 prototypes.

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tramonte
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Re: what happen with thousand of obsolete planes

#8

Post by tramonte » 29 Jul 2023, 07:25

Soviet 7th Air Army which operated in north, from Lake Ladoga to Murmansk wrote off 22 old enough Hurricane fighters during July 1944 and while lost no Hurricanes in combat or in any flying missions. There were according their July month report no Hurricane even in work shop. This is one example what happened to those obsolete aircraft when new more modern arrived to units. I have no idea who made the decision which not damaged aircraft could be written off. I guess they knew how many flying hours each aircraft had. No idea did Russians use aluminium and equiptment of aircraft for other purpose. Certainly radios and cables etc could be recycled.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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