Foo-Fighters Were German: The Evidence

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Ottens
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Post by Ottens » 28 Apr 2005 19:03

Uhm.. okay... we'll remember... :?

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Topspeed
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Post by Topspeed » 01 May 2005 14:08

Here is the closest of UFO so far:

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwvtol.html

Simon Gunson
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Post by Simon Gunson » 10 May 2005 09:58

A Polish man named Igor Witowski has trawled meticulously through NKVD and Polish records of interrogations of captured nazi researchers which we in the West were not privy to. Witowskis's claims about the so called foo fighters are farly modest and not implausible. Witowski claims the Foo fighter was an air launched Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV). It was guided apparently by "sniffing" either the exhaust or ionised exhaust trails of bombers.
It had a single jet engine according to captured Nazi researchers. It also had a spinning toroidal shaped electromagnet using mercury and spinning rare earth magnets in order to produce an EMP effect. Visually it is also said to have produced an eerie blue glow. Put these claims together and it sounds something similar to a flying saucer in shape or form.

I make no personal claim to believe or disbelieve this. However it is not implausible. It certainly excludes the fanciful notion that these were extraterrestrial craft. The fact that the Allied authorities wished to keep an EMP craft classified long after the war adds the lustre of hidden secrets and probably fuels the debate further. I can say that Igor Witowski strikes me as a fairly sober, sincere individual. Witowski is not the type to fuel silly claims and if anything is trying in ernest to shed light on the question with real research rather than speculations.

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Post by Simon Gunson » 20 May 2005 00:27

Author Nick Cook who is an analyst for Janes Defence Weekly kindly sent me a book he wrote recently. It is called The Hunt for Zero Point. I have to admit my skepticism on the subject, but Nick has done a very thorough job of hunting down archives, experts (eg Igor Witowski) and surviving witnesses. I do disagree with some conclusions, but on the whole Nick Cook made a very convincing case that the Nazis had some kind of autonomous, pilotless aircraft which fitted descriptions of Foo fighters.

Nick for example cited various documents liberated on 2 May 1945 by a british technical team in an underground research facility near Eib See. The focus of their research appears to have been a pilotless bomb which had a device to sniff out the ionised air flowing from Bomber trails in the sky. The device was called Windhund.

Other evidence suggests it was armoured and contained an EMP generator. It was manufactured at the Skoda factory by the SS. Linking that with something I saw on the History channel recently there appears to have been a string of different versions using the Coanda effect. Thus they were named Coanda 1, Coanda 2, Coanda 3 etc right up to Coanda 9 which was apparently a large manned aircraft.

Any mention of Foo Fighters invariably turns me off due to an association with UFOs and kooky theories, however it is more plausible that the extraterrestrial stories were hatched as deliberate disinformation during the Cold War to cover up a real secret project captured from the Nazis. Nick Cook certainly seems to have produced some credible evidence, from credible sources.

If you're reading this Nick, thank you for the book.

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Post by ohrdruf » 24 May 2005 14:59

Simon Gunson

I am glad that we are very close to a concord on this subject. My source was principally Witkowski. What he suggests at length in his book "Pravda o Wunderwaffe" is that an ion-mercury substance was developed in a plasma physics project. This plasmoid had certain strange properties in that when placed inside what amounted to a model remote-controlled aircraft flown to altitude, the object changed into a glowing red ball of fire of indeterminate size AND could not be picked up on radar AND was invulnerable to defensive fire. All Allied reports on engagements with "foo-fighters" - and there are hundreds - remain censored on these main points. There are two reports - one USAF and one RAF - where the "ball of fire" appeared to "slip" out of its envelope of invulnerability, when its true form, as a model aircraft with 4-feet wingspan, was then clearly seen.


The true purpose of the plasma physics project is obvious from the evidence which Witkowski has so assiduously accumulated, and he actually states what it is before glossing over it because he is so focussed on the foo-fighter and its next step forward, the manned foo-fighter. These may have been the mysterious aircraft reported over Scandinavia in 1945.


As for Nick Cook, we have to take anything he says with some scepticism. The sworn depositions in the case Polish State v. Jakob Sporrenberg make it clear that the materials, documentation and scientific personnel of the project came to South America, and there is evidence at this end that that is the case. The selling of the knowledge by Obergruf Kammler to the USA in exchange for his liberty, as proposed by Cook, does not seem to match the documents.

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MAX_theHitMan
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Post by MAX_theHitMan » 25 May 2005 23:48

Yes, I am quite aware of some of the writings by Nick Cook and Igor Witowski. I have their books in my collection. They are pretty interesting reading and make us wonder at just how many secrets there might be still hidden from public knowledge due to the fact that they were well advanced machines (weapons) for their time, perhaps even too advanced for todays standards. Surely the governments who captured these weapons (and machines) after the capitulation of the Third Reich will probably never come forward to show them to the public, even in todays age. So there could have been some "exotic propulsion" system invented at that time, but no matter how much anyone will ever search for it, we will always come to a dead-end wall. Some governments just do not want people to know these things, because "it´s for their own safety" as some would say. So again, we stuck in a void without rerally knowing the full truth, only bits and pieces. It´s like trying to find where the Holy Grail is at, but no one is willing to come forward and give you a map with a big Red-X marking the right spot. LOL
But still, I keep on putting the puzzle pieces together and try to find that truth, even if it´s for my own piece of mind.
I have also researched into this "foo-fighter" phenomenon, and have found a very interesting thing about one report made during the war. According to this report, it ALSO includes some of the BEST known photographs taken of the objects does far since the news of them became known at the end of 1944. I don´t have my papers here right now (I´m still at the work) but the known report speaks of a crew of an Allied bomber that was chased by these strange spherical objects, one of the bombers crew took out his camera and snapped a few pictures of the flying "gizmo" at a very close range. According to some witness accounts, those photos reveal what the actual aspect of the "foo-fighters" are really like. Unfortunatly for us all, the government agents (US intelligence) took away these photos and probably locked them away in some secret vault until the end of time. So once again, what could have been a breakthrough in knowledge of what these "flying gizmos" were all about, was once again hidden away from public view and people like us. (or should I say, treasure hunters like us :P )
But one thing I am quite sure of is that after WW2 ended, these strange weapons and ideas made by those, so-called "mad-scientists", from the third reich, were all gathered together and were worked on and even improved by the allied forces.

But I would just wish that these so-called "democratic countries", with governments "for the people, by the people" would stop giving out so many lies and dead end trails, to what the truth really is.

I mean, after all, World War 2 has ENDED for over 60 years now.
It´s about time they should tell us the truth!

:( I guess we will never really know the truth.


... perhaps someone will find SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Dr.Kammler´s secret diaries one day, and THEN just perhaps all of us will know the truth. :wink: :idea:

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Auseklis
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Post by Auseklis » 26 May 2005 10:53

Does anybody of you know the "works" of Wilhelm Landig????

He layed the seeds for this myth.

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Topspeed
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Post by Topspeed » 26 May 2005 17:01

I always tought Foo Fighters was a rock band.

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Oberst_Emann
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Post by Oberst_Emann » 26 May 2005 23:31

and a good one at that!

roggenwolf
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Re: Foo-Fighters Were German: The Evidence

Post by roggenwolf » 23 Oct 2005 12:21

Everyone on the forum has probably forgotten about this thread, so it seems likely that all of this will be a wasted effort. Still, here's my two-cents worth:
ohrdruf wrote:Both the US and British authorities are agreed in their published summaries regarding the "foo-fighter" phenomenon that the objects were "invulnerable". No method could be found to shoot one down. If they knew that, somebody at some stage had to have made the attempt to do so.
In an attempt to obtain first-hand accounts of war-time encounters with 'foo-fighters', UFO researcher Andy Roberts wrote to every air-related magazine in the UK with a request for information from ex-aircrew. He received about thirty replies, from pilots and crew, detailing their experiences with strange balls of light.

None of these respondents had fired upon the phenomena. In some cases this was for fear that they might be some type of secret weapon, which would explode when fired upon; in other cases it was because there seemed to be no sense in firing upon something that didn't pose any immediate threat.

Roberts admits that he has heard a tape of an interview with an American gunner, during which it was claimed that a foo-fighter was fired upon, with the result that the shells went straight through it. However, this tape and its contents are of unverifiable provenance.
ohrdruf wrote:A foo-fighter was a luminous rounded flying object observed and reported by hundreds of Allied aircrew between September 1943 and March 1945 over the Rhine. A lesser number of reports were filed by crews overflying Japanese controlled territory.
The notion that foo-fighters only appeared during 1943 or 1944, over Germany, and then over Japan, in 1945, is a false impression created by Jo Chamberlin's article, 'The Foo-Figther Mystery', which was published in the December 1945 issue of American Legion magazine. This time scale is not supported by extant records.

The first substantiated report of a foo-fighter sighting, known to Roberts, comes from 1940. They were seen often, throughout the war; and reports were received from Norway, Germany, France, Italy, Sicily, the Pacific islands, Burma, Tunisia, and all the sea areas adjoining these countries. Clearly it was an international phenomenon.
ohrdruf wrote:They emitted an electro-magnertic field which damaged aircraft radars. They also emitted great heat, and some aircraft reported scorch damage to the fuselage.
In all of the extant records and substantiated reports, there has been no single mention of electrical interference or damage of any kind. The idea that foo-fighters interfered with Allied radar or ignition systems was first promoted by Renato Vesco, who seems to have been determined to prove that the unidentified flying objects seen after 1947 were developments of German war-time technology, rather than spaceships from Mars. He therefore gave his Feuerball and Kugelblitz devices the ability to interfere with electrical systems, so that they would more closely resemble contemporary UFO reports.
ohrdruf wrote:One RAF pilot and navigator, and one USAF air gunner, reported that a fireball transformed suddenly into a small aircraft "with a navigation lamp burning on the left wingtip".
I have found no record of any RAF pilot or navigator, who reported seeing a foo-fighter turn into a small aircraft.

However, Chamberlin reports one such incident, which is verified by Mission Reports for the USAAF 415th Night Fighter Squadron: 'The next night the same two men, flying at 10,000 feet, observed a single red flame. Lt. David L. McFalls, of Cliffside, N. C., pilot, and Lt. Ned Baker of Hemat, California, radar-observer, also saw: "A glowing red object shooting straight up, which suddenly changed to a view of an aircraft doing a wing-over, going into a dive and disappearing." This was the first and only suggestion of a controlled flying device.'

'A glowing red object shooting straight up, which suddenly changed to a view of an aircraft doing a wing-over, going into a dive and disappearing' sounds awfully like a description of a Bachem Ba 349 rocket-powered, piloted AA missile. The Ba 349 was supposed to ascend almost vertically, propelled by its rocket, until it reached a suitable altitude. At this point, the engine would be shut down and the pilot would roll the aircraft over, to enter into a glide.

Although the Ba 349 was never put into service, 15 of these aircraft were launched, for testing purposes, from October 1944 to December 1944. This time-frame overlaps the period in which the men of the USAAF 415th Night Fighter Squadron encountered ‘foo-fighters’.
ohrdruf wrote:Dr Renato Vesco was an Italian scientist who worked on secret weapons projects at Lake Garda. In his book "Intercept But Don´t Shoot" (Grove Press, 1971) he described a German remote-controlled anti-aircraft device with a homing facility.
Vesco was never any kind of doctor, or even an engineer. Although he is claimed to have attended the University of Rome and, before World War II, studied at the German Institute for Aerial Development, this simply cannot have happened: he was born in 1924. He would therefore have been only 14 or 15 years old, by the time World War II kicked off. It seems a bit young, to be a university graduate undertaking post-graduate studies.

According to Italian UFO researcher Maurizio Verga, Vesco was born in Arona, a small city on Lake Maggiore, in Northern Italy, but spent most of his life in Genoa. The extent of his education remains uncertain and, although he frequently stated that he had graduated as an aeronautical techician, he was wont to claim other titles, too — as the occasion demanded, it would seem. For all that anyone can determine, Vesco obtained no qualification in any discipline.

The various assertions that he was 'a specialist in aerospace and ramjet developments' may have been born out of his abortive attempt, between 1942 and 1944, to develop a rather naive project for a stratospheric fast jet-fighter. He submitted a 50-page report to a Luftwaffe office in Gallarate, but was never graced with a response.

So far as Vesco’s other war-time activities are concerned, it appears that he joined the Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale in 1943, not long before Italy surrendered to the Allies. After 23 September 1943, he volunteered for the Air Force of the 'Repubblica di Salò' — an independent state comprising the northern parts of Italy, which remained allied with the German Reich until the end of the war in Europe. Although Vesco had hoped to become a pilot, he was initially put to work as a bookkeeper, in an office in Milan. Eventually, however, he received some basic flight training and is even alleged to have participated in two aerial combats.

After the war, Vesco was recruited into the new Italian Air Force, with which he served — as a private, stationed at the Galatina airfield, near Lecce in southern Italy — until July 1947.

Between 1956 and the early 1960s, Vesco found employment as an engine technician aboard various merchant ships, which work afforded him an opportunity to travel the world. He spent a little time in the United States of America, the Federal Republic of Germany, and a few other countries besides.

Vesco, it seems, really wasn't the impeccable authority that believers in advanced German 'flying disc' technology would like him to be.
ohrdruf wrote:The highest known priority for any project in the Third Reich was "KRIEGSENTSCHEIDEND" - decisive for the war. Only one single project was awarded this category under the protocol of 21.7.1942., the AEG electrical giant´s project CHARITE ANLAGE. Directed by Dr Richard Craemer, it involved the use of tremendous voltages in a Plasma Physics project "which will last until at least the end of the war." It is known that this project involved spinning containers of mercury at fantastic speeds within a ceramic bell-shaped object.
The project described here — with its 'spinning containers of mercury' sounds more like the alleged H-Gerät, or Haunebu device, than any type of purported foo-fighter. The Haunebu series of flying discs seems to have been a hoax perpetrated by Norbert Jürgen-Ratthofer and Vladimir Terziyski; the general description of the device's appearance was lifted, whole, from those of the bell-shaped, ceramic 'Venusian scout ships', which George Adamski claimed to have seen and photographed during the 1950s.

btw, the Haunebu I was supposed to have been 25 metres in diameter, while the Haunebu II was supposed to have been 26.3 metres in diameter. This is somewhat larger than any war-time foo-fighter is said to have been ... so you might want to check your sources more thoroughly, next time.

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nachomenorca
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Post by nachomenorca » 26 Oct 2005 22:29

Hello to all:
This is the most interesting topic that I've read for a very long time. recently I've read a book called ' Reich of the Black Sun' by Joseph Farrell and find it very interesting too, I feel that is extremely difficult to know what's exactly the truth about what the Foo Fighters & Haunebu are and even if they existed! My personal feeling is that there's a large amount of information about German Military Technology waiting to see the light, yes, the old conspiracy theory is proving to be quite real as years pass and declassified documents become of public domain. There's another subjects of this secrets technologies that has not been mentioned here and maybe as real as Foo fighters can be, i.e. 'the bell' or the existence of a German atomic bomb ready for use in mid 1945, I'm not an engineer nor a technician but the facts are the facts and for me is clear that the USA Gov. knows much more than they tell us.
I'm impressed with Ohrdruf's & Max research work, it's find to find people with an open mind who want to share their work.
Thanks

Sorry for my english
Nacho

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Post by roggenwolf » 31 Oct 2005 02:39

Too bad you didn't trouble to read the material about Renato Vesco ...

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PPoS
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Post by PPoS » 03 Nov 2005 18:23

Really nice to see some new information regarding this subject. I've been researching this subject for awhile now and it's really interesting.
But as roggenwolf said, that there were numerous reports of "Foo's" before 1943 and 1944.

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Post by Purple fang » 08 Nov 2005 01:40

Hey Ordruf. the only source I have seen, ( which isn't extraordinary proof) is Vladimir Terziski. I make no claim as to his cred. he has some video tapes. Interviewed some allied airmen who were eye witnesses to the foo fighters.

This subject is interesting & I would point out that just because we have no extraordinary proof on hand, does not mean these devices did not exist, and vice versa. I thought their point was to short out the electrical systems on planes they followed.

I agree, it's very weird they didn't seem to do much in the way of damage. Exept for short duration killing the electric systems.

Tough subject to follow without hard data-evidence etc. Still interesting & worth investigation. let us know if any nuggets surface.

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Post by roggenwolf » 08 Nov 2005 04:07

The story that foo-fighters shorted out aircraft electrical systems was started by Renato Vesco.

By the time Vesco put pen to paper, the ability of ‘flying saucers’ to interfere with various types of electrical system — ignition systems, radios and lamps, for instance — had become an established part of UFO lore. Thus, if he were to argue, with any hope of success, that flying saucers were terrestrial artefacts based upon war-time German technology, he was obligated to credit foo-fighters with all of the reputed characteristics of contemporary flying saucers — including their notorious electromagnetic interference.

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