Highest Scoring German Pilot

[Topspeed]

The question may be risen whether these enormous claims are to be taken seriously. It is extremely difficult to check every single claim made by Erich Hartmann against Soviet loss statistics. But it is a fact that the German fighters claimed a total of 8,501 Soviet aircraft shot down in 1944, while Soviet loss statistics show that 10,400 Soviet aircraft were lost in combat during the same year.

Well finns scored alot of vvs planes too.
( from the previously posted lonk )


rgds,

Juke

[Panzermahn]

Some interesting facts about German Luftwaffe Aces

a) Hans Ulrich Rudel, the Stuka Ace, not just damaged the Russian battleship Marat but also the battleship Arkangelsk

b) Hans Joachim Marseille was the highest scoring fighter in one day..He shot down 17 aircraft in one day with 2 sorties in 1942 at the North Africa theater..killed because of an accident

c) Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer, the highest scoring night fighter ace who reached the score of 100 before Me 110s were fitted with radars..Before radar, night fighters only depended on their observation and vision

d) The highest scoring jet ace, Heinz Bar with 15 kills...a record not even surpassed by jet fighter pilots of today

e) The highest number of a German air aces shot down belongs to Hans Ulrich Rudel

[tonyh]

Actually, Emil Lang was supposed to have shot down 19 in one day over the course of several sorties.

Tony

[tonyh]

Werner Mölders was the first "ACE" ever to gain 100 kills. He was killed in a He 111 crash in the east during Barbarossa campaign.

Actually Topspeed, a fighter "ace" by international standards is one who has scored over 5 kills.
If you're going to mention Rudel, the highest scoring night-fighter ace was Major und Geschwaderkommodore Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer, with 121 kills and the Knight's Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds to his credit. He unfortunately died in a stupid car accident in 1950.

Not nesscessarilly. The Luftwaffe didn't officially recoqnise the term "ace" and 5 kills wasn't a benchmark. They had a term called "Experten". But one didn't automatically recieve that term if they had 5 kills.

Tony

[mars]

Some interesting facts about German Luftwaffe Aces

a) Hans Ulrich Rudel, the Stuka Ace, not just damaged the Russian battleship Marat but also the battleship Arkangelsk

b) Hans Joachim Marseille was the highest scoring fighter in one day..He shot down 17 aircraft in one day with 2 sorties in 1942 at the North Africa theater..killed because of an accident

c) Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer, the highest scoring night fighter ace who reached the score of 100 before Me 110s were fitted with radars..Before radar, night fighters only depended on their observation and vision

d) The highest scoring jet ace, Heinz Bar with 15 kills...a record not even surpassed by jet fighter pilots of today

e) The highest number of a German air aces shot down belongs to Hans Ulrich Rudel

a) Rudel did not damag Arkangelsk
b) Emil Lang was supposed to have shot down 19 in one day
c) where did you got this crazy idea ?
d) No, in Korean war, Nikolai Sutyagin claimed 21 kills in Mig-15, and Joseph McConnell claimed 16 kills in F-86

[Topspeed]

d) No, in Korean war, Nikolai Sutyagin claimed 21 kills in Mig-15, and Joseph McConnell claimed 16 kills in F-86

A link to soviet/russian ace Nikolai Sutyakin.

http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html

There could be overclaiming involved.



rgds,

Juke

[gabriel pagliarani]

d) No, in Korean war, Nikolai Sutyagin claimed 21 kills in Mig-15, and Joseph McConnell claimed 16 kills in F-86

A link to soviet/russian ace Nikolai Sutyakin.

http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html

There could be overclaiming involved.



rgds,

Juke

ordinary communist disinformazia & internal propaganda. On the other side they told that their pilots were present in Korea only as trainers never involved in dogfightings, thus avoiding McArthur's sure vengeance. Stalin was 3 times liar

[Steady]

There is at least one Israeli pilot with more confirmed air victories than aforementioned pilots.
Giora Epstein is said to have downed 17 Egyptian figter jets. In addition there are many lesser Israeli aces.


http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Giora_Epstein

http://server.mat.fce.vutbr.cz/safarik/ ... srael.html

[Csaba Becze]

BTW one of the most impressive German ace was Helmut Lipfert. As I said many times before: claiming one enemy plane is one thing, shot it down really - one another.
Many aces had unbelievable overclaims (I mean internationally).

We could identify many Soviet victims of Lipfert, I guess, more than 90% of his victims really crashed and he possibly shot down more planes, than 203 (the number of his confirmed air victories)

[Victor]

Slightly off topic. On 25 February 1945 Hptm. Helmut Lipfert shot down a Bf-109G-6 flown by adj. av. Traian Darjan from the Romanian 9th Fighter Group. Ironically Darjan had been one of his students in the summer of 1943, when Lipfert supervised the transition of the 9th Fighter Group pilots from the IAR-80 to the Bf-109G.

[Topspeed]

Slightly off topic. On 25 February 1945 Hptm. Helmut Lipfert shot down a Bf-109G-6 flown by adj. av. Traian Darjan from the Romanian 9th Fighter Group. Ironically Darjan had been one of his students in the summer of 1943, when Lipfert supervised the transition of the 9th Fighter Group pilots from the IAR-80 to the Bf-109G.

Pretty bizarre incident really.
Germans shot down a FAF Ju-88 in Lapland in Lapland War.

rgds,

Juke

[Csaba Becze]

It was not an incident, but a simply dogfight (Romania joined to the Allies 6 month before).

BTW I am curious: what was your source, regarding who shot down who (I mean who shot down Darjan and who shot down Cantacuzino)?

BTW IIRC it was also an unconfirmed victory of Lipfert.

[Victor]

Yes it was unconfirmed. Denes Bernad came to this conclusion and I think he backed it up pretty logically, when studying Lipfert's combat report.

[Aufklarung]

regards
A

[AHLF]

Speaking of Hans Ulrich Rudel

When did he die??
Does he have a memoir??

What happened to his "Knight's Cross with Golden Oakleaves,
Swords and Diamonds " ??

Just wondering..

He died in the 70's I think and yes their are a few books on him. "

Death date: 18/Dec/1982.

A, remember that german pilots over europe were mostly and commonly shot down by a large number of preying USAF fighters. So, quantity did overcome quality and frequently young unexperienced pilots got their victory over various obersts called "Schultz" or otherwise with 64 or more victories.