Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Andrew Arthy
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Re: Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

Post by Andrew Arthy » 19 Feb 2014 02:02

Hi,

The Luftwaffe victory claims (and many Western Allied victory claims and losses) can be found here, thanks to the efforts of Tony Wood: http://lesliesawyer.com/claims/tonywood.htm

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

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tramonte
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Re: Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

Post by tramonte » 30 Jan 2020 12:00

Whether it was USAAF, RAF, Luftwaffe, Soviet VVS, Finnish AF or what ever, the basic rule have been - with only some very special cases and periods(bomber campaign 1941-43, Jagdwaffe cumulative death spiral in 1944, Soviet aviation catastrophe in 1941...) - the most likely average combat loss rate was somewhere around 1% +/- 0.3% per combat missions. Majority, even great majority of air craft losses happened outside combat mission.

It's more likely that official figures of Soviet combat losses (46,100, 1941-45) were much nearer the truth than claims of Jagdwaffe, Romanian, Finnish, Hungarian pilots and flak together. Besides about 10-15% of combat losses was normally caused by accident, bad weather, bad airfield, technical issues, disaster, friendly fire than enemy fighter or flak. Over claim was reality not only for fighter pilots but AA-units too. Then air war was very intensive the over claim rate was easily something like 1:3, 1:4 or even 1:5 meaning that just about 20-35% of claims were true. Air victory really is build with "air" and "victory".
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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tramonte
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Re: Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

Post by tramonte » 30 Jan 2020 12:12

Claims (and losses) of Finnish Fighter units can be found here: (fighter squadrons 24,26,28,32.34)

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_ ... tappioista

List of claims of Fighter Squadron 30 are missing... they had 39 claims and 9 aircraft lost in combat.

Claims during Winter War (30 Nov 39 to 13March 40) were actually well in balance with actual Soviet air combat losses. But when it comes to Continuation War (1941-44) the over claiming according most Finnish and Russian researches are estimated to be between 1:2.2 to 1:3. Which means that about 30-45% of claims were true victories. As so often when air combat happened deep inside above area controlled by Finnish forces claims were much better in balance with true Soviet losses. When it was above front line or in Soviet controlled area 1:3 over claim was almost a norm.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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von thoma
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Re: Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

Post by von thoma » 31 Jan 2020 22:59

'The German Miracle', as was called by the Allies, has a simple explanation ;

When 5 Germans fight against 25 enemies planes, Allies only can shoot down 5 planes, while the Germans hopefully can exceed that figure,
this consecutively always creates more victories on the German side......because Germans planes were many years at a disadvantage.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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