Questions for Erich

[Ovidius]

Hello

I've understood you're an expert in German WWII air force. I need help for a paper I'm doing on German dive bombing.

1. When, and with which type of radio sets were equipped the following planes:

- Henschel Hs-123;
- Junkers Ju-87 Stuka;
- Junkers Ju-88;

2. I've understood that the Ju-88 could also perform dive bombing. How did this rather large and heavy airplane perform in dive?

3. Were the night-attack Ju-87D-7 and D-8 versions ever equipped with radar? If yes, which type?

4. Was the Ju-87A(other than experimental planes) fitted with the "dive-bombing autopilot" of the subsequent versions? Did the versions after D-3 still have it?

5. What was, after all, the difference between Ju-87D-7 and D-8?

6. In which places did fight, in both West and East, the units equipped with Henschel Hs-123 aircraft?

7. Was the Hs-123 ever fitted/retrofitted with a swinging bomb-cradle like the Ju-87 had?

8. And a minor question: the German fighter pilots were equipped, at some moment, with electrically-heated flying suits(You've said once they were unpopular and not very oftenly used) when did these suits first appeared, and which aircraft did have the socket for electric heating? Did the three types listed above(Hs-123, Ju-87, Ju-88 ) have it?

9. Did the Hs-123 have oxygen installation(I've believed it had, otherwise why would it's quoted ceiling be 9,000m )?

~Thank you,

Ovidius

[David C. Clarke]

Hi Ovidius, I think that Erich is off this week on vacation with his family.
Regards, DCC

[Marcus]

Ovidius,

That paper sounds very interesting. Are you going to publish it so we can get a chance to read it?

/Marcus

[Ovidius]

That paper sounds very interesting. Are you going to publish it so we can get a chance to read it?

Unfortunately not yet, and it won't be ready earlier than a few months, 'cause I can't find reliable sources - practically all the Internet sources I've found are contradicting

~Ovidius

[Mait]

Well the following combat data about Hs-123 is from internet sources:

In late 1938, after the Sudeten crisis had passed, the close support units were officially disbanded. Nevertheless, one (Schlachtfliegergruppe 10) survived the axe and was incorporated into Lehrgeschwader 2 as II (Schlacht)/LG 2. In September 939 it was the only front-line Hs 123 unit, all other aircraft having been passed to training units. II (Schlacht)/LG 2 was in the lead air assault against Poland on 1 September 1939 that opened World War II. Armed with 110 lbs (50 kg) bombs on the wing racks and the 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns, the Hs 123s flew just feet above the heads of the Polish cavalry brigades for 10 days. More effective than the armament was the terrifying noise of the BMW radial, which was every bit as effective at dispersing mounted columns as explosives. So effective was the Hs 123 in the lightning Polish campaign that plans to re-equip II (Schlacht)/LG 2 were immediately reversed.

For the unit, the next target was Belgium, supporting the 6th Army as it smashed through from 10 May 1940. The first action was to ward off Belgian sappers attempting to destroy brdige crossings over the Albert Canal. Sweeping through Luxembourg and the Ardennes, Hs 123s were soon in France, and by 21 May were the most forward based Lufwtaffe unit when they reached Cambrai. With victory in France achieved, II (Schlacht)/LG 2 was withdrawn to Germany for re-equipment with the Bf 109E, but the Hs 123 had by now built a legendary reputation for its ability to absorb battle damage, and the Gruppe only partially equipped with the Messerschmitt fighter.

In the fight against the Soviet Union, the HS-123 planes were operating on the southern front. They were incorporated into the newly-formed Schlachtgeschwader 1 and again proved the considerable capability of the Hs 123 in the close support role. Without new production aircraft to replace losses, attritionslowly took its toll on the Hs 123 squadrons, which ended ints days in mid-1944, the remaining aircraft having been grouped in II/Schlachtgeschwader 2.

Hope it was a little help.

Best Regards,

Mait.

[Erich]

Ovidius :

Looks like you have some nice material on the Hs 123. I am still away from my home for possibly another week but I should be able to help you with the Nachtschlacht Ju 87 D's. Will have to hunt down the proper radio sets installed which may take some time but I will look regardless.

Will post soon..........

Tschuß

E 8)

[David C. Clarke]

Hi Erich!! Just remember:
a. Don't trip over any mountains.
b. If you smell smoke, run like Hell.
C. We miss you buddy!!! Best Regards, David

[Erich]

Thanks my friend ! Just called my wife, an "our" fire to the west is almost at 500,000 acres !......geez ! 8) I'll need the glasses for sure, The mtn's were awesome as usual except that the rescue groups are still looking for a lost climber, possibly falling over 2,000 feet onto the Palisade Glaicer in the Sierra Nevada. We climbed to over 12,300 feet and found nothing.......

Getting back to the topic though, a wonderful book by UK author Nick Beale covering the NSGr 9 in Italy; a wonderful compilation of data on an obscure Luftwaffe unit. The Unit flying a large montage of a/c and finally the Ju 87 D's all at night......

E

[Andy H]

For what it's worth

Ju87D-7 was similar to the D1 but with D5 wings and increased wing arnament

Ju87D-8 was similar to the D3 but with D5 wings and increased wing arnament.

The D5 was developed from the D3, Wing spa increased 49' 2 1/2" (15mtrs), Increased diving speeds permitted and jettisonable landing-gear

Andy from the Shire

[Erich]

Ovidius :

I think I am back at least for two weeks. I do need to dig a bit for reference and photo locations for the radio set-ups for the Ju 87's.
Here are some answers albeit in brief form. It has been explained already differences in the D-7 and D-8, in fact many German crews did not differenitiate between the two, but one version had longer wongs and pointed wing tips- the D-8 and the D-8 had the 2cm weapon with flah hiders while the D-7 did not which I do not think is correct. All nachtschlachtgruppen transferred over their D-5's to later versions in January/February of 45. After the D-3 the dive brakes were removed although I have seen some later marks still fitted with them in pics.
There were no radar fitted, just the usual homing/receiving radio sets that were standard at the time period. All attacks were done on a site seen level by the pilot and radio operator and the Stukas at night usally flew in broken "threes" as the US P-61 night fighters usally would intercept the Stukas during their drop flight or during strafing and flying out of the target zone. Many Stukas were brought down by P-61's and RAF Mosquitos but also many escaped not really with evasive tactics but due to their terrible slow speed. They were just simply overshot on the attack runs.
As for the Ju 88, I am not sure what version(s) removed the dive brakes, and the D-7/D-8 I did think never truly evolved. Did think that only the D-5 recon version was the last of that series. Erik E who frequents the TRF frequently would be the guy to point the questions towards ! 8)
You may though find this of interst, nachschlachtgruppe 30 was equipped with the outdated Ju 88A's in the 4 months of 1945. The crews were made up of former night fighter personell of NJG 3, so most likely they were providing necessary ground attack coverage with splinter bombs and using their cannon.

hth,

E 8)

[Victor]

In the fight against the Soviet Union, the HS-123 planes were operating on the southern front. They were incorporated into the newly-formed Schlachtgeschwader 1 and again proved the considerable capability of the Hs 123 in the close support role. Without new production aircraft to replace losses, attritionslowly took its toll on the Hs 123 squadrons, which ended ints days in mid-1944, the remaining aircraft having been grouped in II/Schlachtgeschwader 2.

Actually 10.(S)/LG 2 which was equipped with Hs-123As started the war in the east from Poland, where Fliegerkorps VIII was based on 22 June 1941. It then followed it all around the front, since gen. von Richtoffen's air corps was Luftwaffe's fire brigade. The first Schlachtflieger to obtain the Oak Leaves to his Ritterkreuz flew a Hs-123A and was Hauptman Otto Weiss, dubbed the Lion of Kalinin (which is not in southern Russia).
"The Hs-123A was very useful during the autumn of 1941, due its wide stance and sturdy undercarriage which allowed it to operate from loamy airfields where other aircraft simply got stuck in the mud. "(quote from BC/RS vol. I)

I've understood that the Ju-88 could also perform dive bombing. How did this rather large and heavy airplane perform in dive?

It performed very well and could deliver its bombs accurately.

To Erich:
I have asked you a question about Oblt. Anton Andorfer in the Schlacht and Stuka aces topic in the Third Reich section, but since you were away you probably missed it and the topic has disappeared once again on page 2. Maybe you can look now?

[Erich]

Victor :

I do not have any info on Anto as of yet, and I mean yet......hoipeful by Christmas I can give sufficient bio's or a listing of missions/claims against Soviet and Allied armor and listing of awards of the the Schlacht aces. At present since I am most interested in night missions, I am trying to acquire accounts of NSGr 1 and 2 which flew in northern and southern Germany in 1945, flying the Ju 87 D's and actually were both quite successful in their nocturnal roles.

E

[Erich]

Ovidius :

May I ask what is the paper for ? A private research project or school mid-term of sorts ?

E

[Ovidius]

Ovidius :

May I ask what is the paper for ? A private research project or school mid-term of sorts ?

Just private research(with an emphase on "private")

~Ovidius

[Erich]

Good ! I hope this will be a successful venture for you. Wish I could find more materials for you on the Ju 88, but all I can say as for being an effective dive bomber, this was short lived, as it was needed for deep penetrations through enemy territory. Also I do not have single reference covering the radio sets of the Ju 87, wish I did......nothing on the net under Ju 87 Stuka ?........Ovidius, are you interested in camo schemes of the Ju 87 nachtschlacht wings ?

E