Ju 390 Help!

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
ewest89
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Posts: 106
Joined: 04 Oct 2021 20:11
Location: United States

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ewest89 » 01 Jan 2022 22:04

ThatZenoGuy wrote:
01 Jan 2022 03:21
ewest89 wrote:
31 Dec 2021 20:20
There is no such thing as kitbashed. Photo manipulation was developed shortly after photographic film became available. However, due to the nature of the question, I have no desire to assist present-day photo forgers, and there is too much forgery going on.
So you won't post the pictures so we can see if it's forged at all?...You can't just make a claim and provide literally nothing but heresy. XD
When did I write that I had these photos? I made no claims. I have only started to research this particular subject. It's not heresy but hearsay.

ThatZenoGuy
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Posts: 325
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Location: Australia

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ThatZenoGuy » 02 Jan 2022 02:20

ewest89 wrote:
01 Jan 2022 22:04
When did I write that I had these photos? I made no claims. I have only started to research this particular subject. It's not heresy but hearsay.
Sorry, I mistook you for the other poster who posted the external forum link. I need to read more. X_X

Simon Gunson
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Posts: 782
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 00:25
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Simon Gunson » 16 Jul 2022 06:27

ju55dk wrote:
10 Nov 2021 21:36
There is a lot of crab information in this tread. The Ju 390 never had a fligt in the atlantic, and was never with FAGr 5 in France. In the 90'thies I interwied a lot af crewmembers from FAGr 5, and accessed a bunch of Flugbücher. No one have ever seen a Ju 390. And attached a report from LW-KM about the bird wich with a little luck Junckers would have had 2 maschines ready end 1944. Surviving company records also confirm that the Ju 390 stayed in eastern Germany. BAMA
DSC08114.JPG
DSC08115.JPG

In september 1944 it was'nt even considered an option anymore

Junker
Actually, your reply is so hopelessly confused that it is your reply which is, {to use your own terminology]: "crap" you trot out a letter from June 1944, describing delivery of one Ju390 as a replacement, with 2 more machines expected within a year. This does not prove your case , only your confusion.

Nobody (except you) is debating whether, or not it flew the Atlantic, so you are chasing your own tail trying to shoot down a strawman fallacy. :lol:

Actually, I do seem to recall reading a report by the Luftwaffe Quartermaster General that the Ju390 was on strength with FAGr.5 in June/July 1944 and your document only confirms this:

For example:

"als ersatz vorgeshan diese maschinen wird von der front allemmit nachdruck verlangt, da sie in der lage, ist den gesamten Atlantik aufzuklaren und uber die erforderliche starke bewaffenung verfugt. Es wird mit lieferung 2 maschinen im herbat das Jahres gerechnet."

"As a replacement, these machines are strongly demanded from the front, since they are capable of covering the entire Atlantic
This machine is being envisaged as a replacement and is being strongly demanded by the front, since it is capable of reconnaissance throughout the Atlantic and has the powerful armament required. Delivery of 2 machines is expected in the following year."


Notwithstanding FAGr.5 is your debate, not mine. RC+ DA flew with LTS.290 and not FAGr.5

Whilst flown with LTS.290 in North Africa, the first Ju390, stkz RC+DA, ie jU390 V1 aircraft did patrol observing the approach of convoy KMF.5 and directed attacks by He-111 H-6 aircraft from Ill/KG 26. There were three air attacks on Convoy KMF-5

Image

KMF-5 was shadowed at night by aircraft before the four attacks mostly at night under an almost full moon 21-22 December 1942
One of the He-111 H6 aircraft shot down during attacks The final attack was at 05:45am 22 December 1942:

Image

photo below was taken by Ron Whylie, an Australian merchant seaman born in 1921 taken from the decks of his ship in convoy KMF-5 (per his 2008 email exchange with me) The local Maritime Union at Mossman, Sydney, put me in touch with Ron and they verified he posted the photo to a blog which was created by the Union Ron verified to me that he took this photo in 1942.


Image

below GH+UK the V2 prototype:

Image

What makes Ron's photo noteworthy is In their 1993 book, Die Grosen Dessauer: Junkers Ju-89, 90, 290, 390 Karl Kossler and Gunter Ott claim the second Ju-390 was not flown before September/October 1944, yet RLM cancelled all Ju-390 contracts in May 1944.
Kossler & Ott's claim that the Ju390 first flew Sept/Oct 1944 is disproven by the log book of Ju390 test pilot Hans Werner Lerche.

Image

Hans Werner Lerche records his flight in the Ju-390 on 28 October 1943.

Chief test pilot Hans Pancherz told British interrogators in 1945 that the Ju390 V1 was modified from Ju-90 V6, werke number Wnr 4918, first flown 20 October 1943 by himself Flugkapitan Hans Joachim Pancherz with Dipl Ing. Gast as co-pilot.

However there are conflicting references to a Ju390 flown from Bernberge in August 1943, flown by Flugkapitan Hans Werner Lerche.



Image

So we have two Ju390 aircraft RC+DA seen in action in 1942 and another, GH+UK photographed over Insterberg, 26 November 1943

Even the display of GH+UK for Hitler at Insterberg in 1943, Kossler & Ott's claim that the Ju390 first flew Sept/Oct 1944


Image

User avatar
Takao
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Location: Reading, Pa

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Takao » 16 Jul 2022 17:13

You are aware that the 1942 "RC DA" is a digital fake...Don't you.

Peter89
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Posts: 1695
Joined: 28 Aug 2018 05:52
Location: Spain

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Peter89 » 16 Jul 2022 17:28

Interestingly, the other book titled Die grossen Dessauer by Heinz Nowarra claims the first flight of the Ju 390 took place in 1943 (s. 45).
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

ju55dk
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Posts: 159
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 14:18
Location: Denmark

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ju55dk » 16 Jul 2022 19:45

Simon Gunson wrote:
16 Jul 2022 06:27
ju55dk wrote:
10 Nov 2021 21:36
There is a lot of crab information in this tread. The Ju 390 never had a fligt in the atlantic, and was never with FAGr 5 in France. In the 90'thies I interwied a lot af crewmembers from FAGr 5, and accessed a bunch of Flugbücher. No one have ever seen a Ju 390. And attached a report from LW-KM about the bird wich with a little luck Junckers would have had 2 maschines ready end 1944. Surviving company records also confirm that the Ju 390 stayed in eastern Germany. BAMA
DSC08114.JPG
DSC08115.JPG

In september 1944 it was'nt even considered an option anymore

Junker
Actually, your reply is so hopelessly confused that it is your reply which is, {to use your own terminology]: "crap" you trot out a letter from June 1944, describing delivery of one Ju390 as a replacement, with 2 more machines expected within a year. This does not prove your case , only your confusion.

I see that you have trouble reading and understanding german. So I have proved my case. All you are letting out is undocumented crap.

Nobody (except you) is debating whether, or not it flew the Atlantic, so you are chasing your own tail trying to shoot down a strawman fallacy. :lol:

You are the only person claiming that it flew in the atlantic. Yet deliver no proof.

Actually, I do seem to recall reading a report by the Luftwaffe Quartermaster General that the Ju390 was on strength with FAGr.5 in June/July 1944 and your document only confirms this:

Then show this document that no one else can find. My document does not confirm this.

For example:

"als ersatz vorgeshan diese maschinen wird von der front allemmit nachdruck verlangt, da sie in der lage, ist den gesamten Atlantik aufzuklaren und uber die erforderliche starke bewaffenung verfugt. Es wird mit lieferung 2 maschinen im herbat das Jahres gerechnet."

"As a replacement, these machines are strongly demanded from the front, since they are capable of covering the entire Atlantic
This machine is being envisaged as a replacement and is being strongly demanded by the front, since it is capable of reconnaissance throughout the Atlantic and has the powerful armament required. Delivery of 2 machines is expected in the following year."


Notwithstanding FAGr.5 is your debate, not mine. RC+ DA flew with LTS.290 and not FAGr.5

Now it's beeing absurd. LTS was a transport unit. They never flew shadowing operations on convoys.

Whilst flown with LTS.290 in North Africa, the first Ju390, stkz RC+DA, ie jU390 V1 aircraft did patrol observing the approach of convoy KMF.5 and directed attacks by He-111 H-6 aircraft from Ill/KG 26. There were three air attacks on Convoy KMF-5

Funny enough KTB LTS 290 does not mention any Ju 390.

Image

KMF-5 was shadowed at night by aircraft before the four attacks mostly at night under an almost full moon 21-22 December 1942
One of the He-111 H6 aircraft shot down during attacks The final attack was at 05:45am 22 December 1942:

Show us the ducumentation to this operation.

Image

photo below was taken by Ron Whylie, an Australian merchant seaman born in 1921 taken from the decks of his ship in convoy KMF-5 (per his 2008 email exchange with me) The local Maritime Union at Mossman, Sydney, put me in touch with Ron and they verified he posted the photo to a blog which was created by the Union Ron verified to me that he took this photo in 1942.

As the Ju 390 had not been completed it could not be there.

Image

below GH+UK the V2 prototype:

Image

What makes Ron's photo noteworthy is In their 1993 book, Die Grosen Dessauer: Junkers Ju-89, 90, 290, 390 Karl Kossler and Gunter Ott claim the second Ju-390 was not flown before September/October 1944, yet RLM cancelled all Ju-390 contracts in May 1944.
Kossler & Ott's claim that the Ju390 first flew Sept/Oct 1944 is disproven by the log book of Ju390 test pilot Hans Werner Lerche.

Yes the program was cancelled, but they decided to finish the second Ju 390.

Image

Hans Werner Lerche records his flight in the Ju-390 on 28 October 1943.

Chief test pilot Hans Pancherz told British interrogators in 1945 that the Ju390 V1 was modified from Ju-90 V6, werke number Wnr 4918, first flown 20 October 1943 by himself Flugkapitan Hans Joachim Pancherz with Dipl Ing. Gast as co-pilot.

This flight is not mentioned in Pancherz Flugbuch.

However there are conflicting references to a Ju 390 flown from Bernberge in August 1943, flown by Flugkapitan Hans Werner Lerche.



Image

So we have two Ju390 aircraft RC+DA seen in action in 1942 and another, GH+UK photographed over Insterberg, 26 November 1943

Even the display of GH+UK for Hitler at Insterberg in 1943, Kossler & Ott's claim that the Ju390 first flew Sept/Oct 1944

He saw a Ju 390 on the ground.


Image
So please let us all se the documentation for all these undocumented statements made by you. But I suspect you have none :lol:

Junker

Denniss
Member
Posts: 340
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 02:52
Location: Germany

Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Denniss » 17 Jul 2022 01:43

All you have are faked Ju 390 images made by a known german faker/illustrator, the Konrad Kujau of aircraft images.

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