Stuka Bombing

[Reich Ruin]

I know the infamous Ju-87 was principly a divebomber but in many games and films I have seen hints that Stuka's flew straight over their target and dropped smaller bombs from their wings sometimes. Also they used their sirens and dive brakes to stafe ( ie: Opening scene in Enemy At The Gates. I dunno if Stuka pilots did this or it's just hollywood ?

[PPoS]

Surely they did. But the most common was to make a diveattack at a target. But as any other plane it would also strafe its targets.

[Kurt_Steiner]

I know the infamous Ju-87 was principly a divebomber but in many games and films I have seen hints that Stuka's flew straight over their target and dropped smaller bombs from their wings sometimes. Also they used their sirens and dive brakes to stafe ( ie: Opening scene in Enemy At The Gates. I dunno if Stuka pilots did this or it's just hollywood ?

infamous? why?

Well, I suppose that using the dive brakes would be quite sensible to do if your are diving. Otherwise, something more than bombs may hit the ground.

[varjag]

I know the infamous Ju-87 was principly a divebomber but in many games and films I have seen hints that Stuka's flew straight over their target and dropped smaller bombs from their wings sometimes. Also they used their sirens and dive brakes to stafe ( ie: Opening scene in Enemy At The Gates. I dunno if Stuka pilots did this or it's just hollywood ?

The Ju 87 'Stuka' was FAMOUS - not infamous. It's bombsights were designed for dive-bombing in which it achieved an accuracy unknown in bomber forces before it. The 'Jericho Trumpets' (sirens) I think was mainly a feature of the western campaign in 1940. Tossing bombs from under their wings in level flight - would have been very inaccurate not to say chancy. Forget the games and the films, the reality was that this bomber, probably landed more German tonnage per aircraft ON THE TARGET than any other they had or used

[Steady]

Stukas were used in night intruder role in western front in 1944-1945. In this role they would fly in low altitude and drop small antipersonnel bombs from level flight.

Also Stuka ace Ulrich Rudel tells in his memories that the Stukas would often use their machine guns and cannons against ground targets.

following infro from http://homepage.tinet.ie/~nightingale/s ... iants.html

Ju 87D-5
Level attack version : no divebrake but extended wings.

Ju 87D-7
Night intruder with no dive brakes , flame-dampened exhausts , night flying equipment and twin 20 mm cannon.

Ju 87D-8
Definitive production version of Ju 87D-7.

[Reich Ruin]

That's porbably it.... I recently rented Call Of Duty: Finest Hour ( as said in the games forum ) and during the last Soviet mission I was in a T-34 being strafed by Stukas. As they came in waves they has their sirens on with guns blazing. They then dropped their bombs as they passed over the tank column. This is one example..... in Call Of Duty and the United Offensive expansion for the PC JU-87's often did that. Check http://www.callofduty.com for footage of this in the trailer videos. Im sure Stuk's stafed but I wasen't sure if they level bombed or not. Thanks for the replies !


P.S. Out of curiosity did Stukas ever get equiped with rockets ?

[Erich]

as far as I am aware there were never any D7's or 8's // the night ground attack with 2cm weapons were D-5's.

[Warlordimi]

Sorry for bringing back this old topic I see lot of inacurracies and fancies here!

First. "Infamous" The Stuka was for sure the most famous dive bomber of the WW2. Whether it wrote its history in blood letters all across Europe and the Russian fields, or because it flew from 1936 to 8 May 1945, ouclassed, outgunned and outnumbered... But still one of the backbone's plane of the SG groups. Why infamous? It was the best engineered dive bomber plane of it's time. No other dive bomber had it's accuracy, and dropping bombs where it hurts was it's purpose. It may not have the range of the D3A1 Val (even R2 - Reichsweite - long range) but as it was a close air support/front line airplane this wasn't it's purpose once again. It's hadn't the flexibility of the Dauntless, the sturdiness of the Helldiver, but nevertheless, it was a performing aircraft, providing it had an adequate air cover. Even outclassed, it kept on serving the Luftwaffe until the end.

Concerning it's straffing possibilities. As it was said, like all aircraft, and eventhough it's twin MG17 were quite light, it had an overwhelming psychological effect on the ground troops. That is what you have to remember from "Ennemy at the gates"! Not the game b...s...t like CoD, even if it is fun to play. And event not from Forgotten Battles sim, were the explosive bullets aren't modeled. MG17 are just for making nice screenshots. For non dive bombing duties, the Stukas like all SG units widely used and spread AB's cluster bombs. Or it could also be standard SC bombs with the mud-extension tube (sorry, don't remember precise name in english).

The sirens. ALL divebombers (means not G1/2) versions had the sirens EXCEPTS the R2 on which they were removed at the factory! For the D5, some planes were factory fitted with it, some not. The only rule, is that the first batch of planes came with it. For nothing is less sure. Some were removed on the field.

For D7 and D8 versions. It is still not know of those versions really existed as a RLM or Junkers official name. There are also mentions of D3-N and D5-N (Nacht???). But, in any case, the D8 IS NOT AN UPGRADE of the D7. The so-called D3 came from D3 frames, D8 from D5, with extended wingspan and MG151/20.

I quote you two persons on a discussion we had on LEMB.

According to a discussion in the Luftwaffe Verband a while ago, there were never Nachtschlacht Ju 87 D-7s or D-8s. There is no proof for either of these.

To quote Nick Beale in Verband #25, p.7:

"I have never seen a wartime German reference to a Ju 87 D-7 or D-8. Can anyone quote one or is this another of those 'facts' that came into being only after the war. All my research into Nachtschlacht units has only documented the standard Ju 87 D-1, D-3 and D-5 designations and, just occasionally, a D-3(N) and D-5(N), I guess to denote Nacht."

In Verband #26 on p.8 Christian Moeller agreed with Nick.

These men are two of the most knowledgeable about Nachtschlacht units, so I think it is safe to say that the Ju 87 D-7 and D-8 serving with NSG units is a myth.

And,

maybe the D-7 & D-8 stems from william greens warplanes of the third reich, pub 1970. & the psl/airfix JU-87 book.

'the ju-87D-7 was evolved specifically for nocturnal assault tasks . With large flame damper tubes leading back over the wing.....
the D-8 was built in parallel with the D-7 but lacked flame dampers and night flying equipment.

Cheers,

Dimitri

[Erich]

as I said earlier, no D-7's or D-8's. Chatting with Christain Möller the last couple of years about his night ground attack book we discussed the entires into the NSGr 1 and 2 flight logs and there is no idication of these latter a/c that W. Green mentions in his book........his work hate to say is old news.

E ~

[Paul Lakowski]

I was speaking with my old man who was in the german army during the war. One day he ended up in jail for not getting back to baracks on time. He was shock that their were so many Luftwaffe pilots in the jail...and they were all nuts! He inquired what was up with the pilots and was told they were all Stuka pilots. It turns out the G forces involved in the pull out maneuver of the dive bombing attack were so severe that each pilot only had so many 'divebombs attacks' before he was affected. I gather each time they pulled out their was a chance that the brain would tare away from the inside of the skull some more?

One question what would a dive bombing attack be like ? Would they start at 20,000 ft and dive to 3000 feet ? How long would it take to dive the distance?

[Ome_Joop]

Crazy thanks to dive bombing? Sounds Crazy!
Never heard of this and think if this should be true other pilots should have this too (Other divebombers as many countries had these type of aircraft) as the G-force in a dive or pulling out out it was a max of 6 (modern fighter aircraft can pull more than 9 G....and these pilots don't get Crazy!!!))~
It's more likely they pretended to be crazy and so be able to survive in prison....

Max dive speed for the A version was about 550Km/H and from B onwards 600Km/H...

[Paul Lakowski]

Crazy thanks to dive bombing? Sounds Crazy!
Never heard of this and think if this should be true other pilots should have this too (Other divebombers as many countries had these type of aircraft) as the G-force in a dive or pulling out out it was a max of 6 (modern fighter aircraft can pull more than 9 G....and these pilots don't get Crazy!!!))~
It's more likely they pretended to be crazy and so be able to survive in prison....

Max dive speed for the A version was about 550Km/H and from B onwards 600Km/H...

Modern pilots have G suits and special designed seats to withstand 9 G maneuvers, with out these the average pilot would black out at 5Gs. I guess some are better suited for this than others , but wartime makes them employ less than suitable pilots for such DB attacks?

Thanks for the speed info!

[Steady]

G forces do not make people crazy. G forces do damage tiny blood vessels in the eye retina, ears, nose and skin (maybe other places also?). I remember reading once about a Finnish JU-88 pilot who after the war tried his scoped hunting rifle and discovered that the scope picture was full of tiny lines. His doctor told that these were burst blood vessels inisde his eye that would heal with time.

[Warlordimi]

Crazy thanks to dive bombing? Sounds Crazy!
Never heard of this and think if this should be true other pilots should have this too (Other divebombers as many countries had these type of aircraft) as the G-force in a dive or pulling out out it was a max of 6 (modern fighter aircraft can pull more than 9 G....and these pilots don't get Crazy!!!))~
It's more likely they pretended to be crazy and so be able to survive in prison....

Max dive speed for the A version was about 550Km/H and from B onwards 600Km/H...

Modern pilots have G suits and special designed seats to withstand 9 G maneuvers, with out these the average pilot would black out at 5Gs. I guess some are better suited for this than others , but wartime makes them employ less than suitable pilots for such DB attacks?

Thanks for the speed info!

The Stuka could with stand 12G im emergency pull-up. The plane was guided by a mechanical system until the pilot had recover from blackout!

[Ome_Joop]

The Stuka could with stand 12G im emergency pull-up. The plane was guided by a mechanical system until the pilot had recover from blackout!

I don't know if the aircraft can withstand such a high G load....12 G is a lot!!!
let me say it this way a combat loaden Ju-87 just in it's dive would way something like 4400 kg x 12 - 52,800 kg

For comparisment....a maximum Overloaded B-17 has a weight of 27,240 kg!!!!!!!!!!