The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

[sveahk]

...and it is a Luftwaffe unit.

Hans k

[sveahk]

And it looked like this:

[sveahk]

Last hint: Three months before the swastika was overpainted, the unit had to remove their emblem, ace of spades, from their aircraft!

Hans K

[Michael Emrys]

This is indeed a very puzzling question (good one, sveahk!). I can think of several possible reasons for this action. One is some kind of disciplinary action against the unit involved, but that doesn't seem very likely at all; just doesn't feel right. Another might be to confuse enemy intelligence, but as the squadron codes appear intact, that doesn't make sense either. A third might have something to do with diplomatic reasons if the unit were operating out of a friendly country under circumstances that could prove questionable under international law. But even that strikes me as weak.

So mark me down as duly puzzled.



Michael

[sveahk]

Ok, let's resolve this, it's an interesting story:

The unit was JG 53. At the end of July 1940 they were stationed in France, flying missions towards England. At that time they were ordered by Göring to remove the unit's "Ace of Spades" emblem from their Bf 109 E's, and replace it with a red band. No plausible explanations and the reason why has never been totally resolved. One rather credible possibility would be that the JG 53 Geschwaderkommodore, Oberstleutnant Hans-Jürgen Cramon, was married to a jewish woman and he would not let go of her. And Göring got plenty mad...

Some in the unit reacted too. Gruppenkommodore Hauptmann Wolf-Dietrich Wilke, who took over III./JG 53 in the middle of August, was a Nazi opponent. At his instigation, his Gruppe and others, painted over the swastika on the 109 tails, as seen in the photo above. Obviously a political statement in the middle of the war! Von Cramon was then replaced by Major Günther von Maltzahn at the end of September 1940, and the "Spade of Aces" started to reappear again, as did the swastikas.

No Knight's Cross for von Cramon, only a DKiG (German Cross in Gold), which was probably also politically motivated... Most important though, he survived the war!

That this all went through without any known major victims or worse, is, in my view astonishing.

Anybody's question!

Hans K

[Michael Emrys]

Great story, sveahk. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Michael

[sveahk]

I guess it's time to start moving this quiz again...!

Which "Beuteflugzeug" (booty aircraft) of german origin was used by the allies against the germans? And which ally was that?

Hans K

[sveahk]

This happened at the end of the war...guess, guess!

Hans K

[vanir]

I was going to say the He-115 but that was used by Britain during the mid-war (for dropping agents in occupied territory). As for a "booty aircraft" used at the end of the war, I presume in more directly offensive operations I'd give a wild guess at the He-219 by Great Britain or something from the Mediterranean by the US...hang on, what about the Me-109E, F and G's used by Bulgaria and Rumania against their former comrades?

[sveahk]

Well, I consider the Rumanian and Bulgarian Messerschmitts and others to be more like pseudo-booty planes. Anyway, I wasn't thinking of those.
One can say today that at least some of those German planes were even manned by German pilots!

Hans K

[sveahk]

Last hint: This ally was not found in the west... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Hans K

[sveahk]

Let's consider this question too difficult...

I'm thinking of FW 190's with red stars on body and wings, Russian and obviously also German pilots flying them for the Soviet union. Seen, noted and even shot down during the end of April and the start of May, 1945. There is still some (political?) controversy surrounding this topic, notably noted in the absense of books or documentation dealing with this...

Sometime during the next couple of weeks I like to present here what I have found out about those incidents at the end of the war.
A very interesting story, with some questionmarks of course...

Hans K

Oh, it's an open Forum now, anybody with a good Luftwaffe question, please give it a try!!

[vanir]

Everyone's bound to know this story around here but still it's one of my favorites. What was the novel manner certain (notable) members of JG 52 evacuated some of their mechanics from Crimea during the German retreat?

[sveahk]

The only way I know is, they cleaned out the a/c body behind the pilot's seat and let the "passenger" fly in this empty, although quite cramped space...but if this is not what you've been thinking of, perhaps you've got some hint, to keep this thread moving.....!??

Hans K

[sveahk]

Hello ...anybody out there !?

Hans K