Focke Wulf Ta-183

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Huck
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Post by Huck » 08 Sep 2005 17:35

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Hmm the first sketch of what later became the MiG-15 was done by the guy who was chief designer of He-162.
You're probably talking about Siegfried Günther. He was for a brief period in USSR, after the war, and was involved in developing jet fighters. However, he was the designer of He-162, as Kurt Tank was not the designer of Ta-183.

Huck
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Post by Huck » 08 Sep 2005 17:37

By the way, MiG-15 had 3 prototypes that were basically just like the production version. I find the period before these MiG-15 prototypes even more interesting.
The question remains: is that photo a fake or not?

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 08 Sep 2005 17:43

Huck wrote:
Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Hmm the first sketch of what later became the MiG-15 was done by the guy who was chief designer of He-162.
You're probably talking about Siegfried Günther. He was for a brief period in USSR, after the war, and was involved in developing jet fighters. However, he was the designer of He-162, as Kurt Tank was not the designer of Ta-183.
yes he is the guy - so what was his role exactly in regards to he-162?

Avis 1
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Ta 183

Post by Avis 1 » 08 Sep 2005 18:41

All

Soviet Union did NOT test fly the Focke Wulf Ta 183. To them there were more interesting types.
The top picture was widely circulated in the 1950's and in Sweden "professionals" stated it was the Yak-25 or MiG-13. None of which of course was true.

NO Soviet/Russian author has ever claimed they know anything regarding this aeroplane in the Soviet Union. The book The German imprint on the history of Russian aviation by Sobolev/Khazanov does NOT mention it. Yefim Gordon does not mention it. C F Guest does't ever mention it.

IF it was so well known in the 1950's why can't anyone today find any proof of it? Simple, it did not exist as a flying prototype

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Stig Jarlevik
Gothenburg, Sweden

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 08 Sep 2005 19:06

MadderCat wrote:
Do not confuse the Ta-183 with concurring Messerschmitt Products.

MadderCat

None of the pictures or dravings that i have been referring to are showing a Messerschmitt product !

What's your point here ?

MadderCat wrote: "there is a new ting out there, maybe you don't know yet...but now you know it....it's called google..."
you will find by just using google books, reports, pictures, models, what-if-decals etc.....

MadderCat
It's no need to bee rude !!

I'm not so used to the Internet / Google and so on..... I'm a Newbie to the computer world !!

And maybe some of the people here at the Forum have some nice information to share !!!

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 08 Sep 2005 19:41


http://www.luft46.com

In late 1942, Focke-Wulf engineer Hans Multhopp headed up a design team that started aerodynamic studies for a new turbojet fighter.
This culminated in 1945 as a fighter project known as "Huckebein" later to be given the designation Ta 183.
The Ta 183 had a short, squat fuselage with the air intake passing under the cockpit and proceeding to the rear where the single He S 011 turbojet was located, although the first three prototypes were to be powered by Jumo 004B jet engines.
The wings were very thin, swept back at 40 degrees and were mounted in the mid-fuselage position.
A tapered main wing spar constructed of two duraluminum I-beams with steel flanges formed a torque box, with the attachment at the fuselage consisting of a single bolt.
The wing structure was completed by adding bonded wooden ribs with a plywood covering.
The huge fin was swept back at 60 degrees, with the tailplane mounted on the top of the fin.
The tailplane also exhibited considerable dihedral.
Wing elevons and the rudder provided control, the tailplane control surfaces only being used for trimming.
The flaps and landing gear were operated hydraulically.
The pilot sat in a pressurized cockpit with a bubble canopy which provided excellent all-around vision.

In Febuary 1945, the OKL (High Command of the Luftwaffe) decided that the Ta-183 was chosen to be further developed and produced.
There were to be sixteen ( 16 ) Versuchs (experimental test series) aircraft :
* Ta-183 V1-V3 to be powered by the Jumo 004B turbojet ( while waiting for delivery of the He S 011 jet engine).
* Ta-183 V4-V14 as 0-series preproduction aircraft and
* Ta-183 V15-V16 as static test aircraft.

The maiden flight of the first aircraft was planned for May/June of 1945.
The first production aircraft were scheduled to be completed by October 1945, but no examples of the Ta 183 were completed because on April 8, 1945 British troops captured the Focke-Wulf facilities.

After the war, the Ta 183 story continued.
The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta-183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau.
On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta-183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet.
They discovered that the original Ta-183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail.
The modified Ta-183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15.

Meanwhile, Kurt Tank (head of the Focke-Wulf design department) had left Germany to go to Argentina in 1947.
There Tank was to build a tubojet powered fighter for the Argentine Air Force, and he decided to build the Ta 183.
Tank made several changes to Multhopp's original design mainly the wing being changed to a shoulder mounted position.
The first flight of the so called "Pulqui II" was made on June 27, 1950.

http://www.luft46.com

Is this information 100% accurate and confirmed ??

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 08 Sep 2005 19:56

The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta-183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau.
On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta-183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet.
They discovered that the original Ta-183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail.
The modified Ta-183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15.
MiG 15 does no really look much like Ta-183
Image -mig 15
Image -Ta-183

If anything SAAB 29 looks more like Ta-183


Image

In general however second generation jets all look very much alike

here is two more La-15 Image

and F-86 Image

MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 08 Sep 2005 20:40

@2stroke
i don't want to be rude to you, but a little googling presents you a lot of data
by just typing "ta 183" in google/yahoo/altavista

my point with the messerschmitt project's is
that these were of the same general appearence as the Ta-183 (first solutuion)
the later Ta 183 had the coxkpit moved more to the middle of the plane




MadderCat

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 08 Sep 2005 20:45

Hans Multhopp holds a scale model of his Ta 183.
Multhopp who, as a young gifted aerodynamicist at Focke-Wulf, was a member of Kurt Tank's advanced design team responsible for the Ta 183.
After the war, Multhopp accepted a job with the Glenn L. Martin Company in Baltimore, Maryland.
Multhopp was Tank's theoretical advisor who recognized and understood the advantages of the swept wing.


The above information + picture is from : http://www.fiddlersgreen.net
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Last edited by 2stroke on 09 Sep 2005 13:03, edited 1 time in total.

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 08 Sep 2005 20:58

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:
Image -Ta-183

MadderCat" wrote: The later Ta 183 had the cockpit moved more to the middle of the plane.
MadderCat

The picture shows the version ( Design III ) were the cockpit is more to the middle of the plane and the the tailplane mounted lower on the fin.

( Focke-Wulf drawing number 0310252-15 dated Febuary 1945, showing the location of the main components, including the He S 011 turbojet )


// 2stroke

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 10 Sep 2005 19:58

Here are a picture taken of the Ta-183 during a windtunel test in USA 1947 :

* http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/6849 ... 9470yu.jpg

and another one from the same test :
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2stroke
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Silver Hill Museum in USA

Post by 2stroke » 10 Sep 2005 23:35

Melinka wrote: I know a lot of german secret aircrafts are joined together in the Silver Hill Museum in Washington D.C.
Does anybody know the www.address , to the Silver Hill Museum in Washington USA ????

// 2stroke

MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 11 Sep 2005 09:53


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2stroke
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More information needed

Post by 2stroke » 11 Sep 2005 22:28

Thanx MadderCat !!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Please can anybody help me with information regarding Focke-Wulf Ta-183 ??

* Blueprints / Drawings
* Pictures
* Facts & Dimensions
* History
* bla bla bla bla


HELP !!

// 2stroke

|AXiN|
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Post by |AXiN| » 13 Sep 2005 23:34


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