Focke Wulf Ta-183

Reich Ruin · Post by **Reich Ruin** » 16 Sep 2005 22:03

The pictures you posted are fake but they are not hoax's either. They where done by graphic artists for several books about the Ta183 jet fighter. Also the Russians did capture the plans and used it as inspiration for the Mig-15 but the latter is not a clone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183

2stroke · Post by **2stroke** » 19 Sep 2005 19:55

Reich Ruin wrote: The pictures you posted are fake but they are not hoax's either.
They where done by graphic artists for several books about the Ta183 jet fighter.
Also the Russians did capture the plans and used it as inspiration for the Mig-15 but the latter is not a clone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183

What is hoax's ?

I don't know if the pictures is fake or not, but to me it doesen't matter, because I'm intressted in EVERYTHING about this aircraft

If somebody know anything about the Ta-183 or have any drawings pictures feel free to post...

Please !

// 2stroke

MadderCat · Post by **MadderCat** » 19 Sep 2005 20:23

@2stroke
how about babelfish.altavista.com to get the meaning of hoax in your native language....
roughly described: "hoax" means "bad joke"

and yes we've registered over a few boards that you're interested in anything about this plane,
so no need to repeat this every then and now

MadderCat

|AXiN| · Post by **|AXiN|** » 20 Sep 2005 05:31

Hoax means more "Fake", imo.

Huck · Post by **Huck** » 20 Sep 2005 17:27

I'm still waiting to hear reasons why this photo is a fake, I haven't heard any so far:

|AXiN| · Post by **|AXiN|** » 20 Sep 2005 23:24

I'm certainly not an authority, but that photo 'feels' fake to me - photocomposited or a model or something.

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 21 Sep 2005 07:18

Would they have had boundary layer barriers on it already back in 1946 ?

MadderCat · Post by **MadderCat** » 21 Sep 2005 09:52

if prototype so no number would normally be attached
if real frontline aircraft or training aircraft, why is there only this picture

picture seems to be retouched on the tailpipe, cockpit and air intake
it could be an retouched pic of an La-Design (La-15) or from another design buero

here is a link about russian planes: http://www.aviation.ru/La/

MadderCat

Huck · Post by **Huck** » 21 Sep 2005 12:46

Topspeed wrote:Would they have had boundary layer barriers on it already back in 1946 ?

Oh yes they did. When Messerschmitt modified the slats as they were on 109 Emil, boundary layer fences were considered as a replacement, but were found less effective than slats.

Huck · Post by **Huck** » 21 Sep 2005 12:56

MadderCat wrote:if prototype so no number would normally be attached
if real frontline aircraft or training aircraft, why is there only this picture

picture seems to be retouched on the tailpipe, cockpit and air intake

Both reasons are incorrect. Russian protototypes were often assigned numbers and their photos were often heavily retouched for security reasons. Take a look at this photo of an Yak-30 prototype: it has a number and the photo is heavily retouched. Does this mean that the plane did not exist? Of course it did!

source for the pic: legion.wplus.net

MadderCat · Post by **MadderCat** » 21 Sep 2005 13:15

hmmm
the Yak-30 I remember had no front intake and was a trainer
so this could be a interceptor variant

btw did You look at the planes from Lavochkin?
don't they resemble a little to the picture of the "flying russian Ta-183"?

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 21 Sep 2005 14:39

Of course they do ....the whole jet business in Russia started out with 3 000 forced labour german scientists.

Huck · Post by **Huck** » 21 Sep 2005 20:41

MadderCat wrote:hmmm
the Yak-30 I remember had no front intake and was a trainer
so this could be a interceptor variant

The plane you are talking about is an unrelated development, there are 2 different planes carrying the same designation.
The Yak-30 in the picture above was the direct competitor of MiG-15. The Yak-30 you are referring to competed with Czech L-29 trainer. Both lost the competitions.

MadderCat wrote:btw did You look at the planes from Lavochkin?
don't they resemble a little to the picture of the "flying russian Ta-183"?

Being born and raised in Eastern Europe, I'm quite familiar with all Soviet military planes, including Lavochkin early jet fighters.
That being said, I do not see any particular similarity between the "Soviet Ta-183" in the picture above and Lavochkin early jet fighters, except that some of them used the same, visually striking, configuration - the stepped design - that has a short fuselage for the length of the engine and the tail suspended on a thin boom. Stepped design was a necessity dictated by the low thrust of the early jet fighters. Although less efficient aerodynamically this configuration preserved the thrust of the engine, which was not true for other configurations available at that time. For instance, P-80 lost more than 1/4 of the engine thrust because of the lenghty intake ducts and exhaust pipe. Such thrust loss could not be compensated by any aerodynamic solution, therefore in the early days of jet flight the stepped design was very popular.

That again, does not prove that the picture with the "Soviet Ta-183" is a fake.

Grzesio · Post by **Grzesio** » 22 Sep 2005 08:48

The picture of the Soviet Ta 183 is a fake, it is probably made of a couple of pictures mounted together - if you look closely at the air intake, you will notice, it's seen at different angle than wings and tailplane. It can be easily checked by plotting a couple of lines to check the perspective (what I did already).

Regards

Grzesio

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 22 Sep 2005 09:31

I also think the airintake is not in harmony with those wings in perspective wise.